[justine]

I just got an email from one of the area dog groups I'm part of and it said that starting in April 2010, AKC is going to start allowing Mixed Breeds in to compete!

More info here:

http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=3810

"The mixed breeds program will be implemented in three phases. As of October 1, 2009 owners can begin enrolling their pets and receive an AKC ID number. Then beginning April 1, 2010 enrolled dogs will be eligible to compete in mixed breed classes at stand-alone AKC Agility, Obedience and Rally events. Soon after they will have access to benefits such as discounted AKC Companion Animal Recovery Lost and Found service, a free AKC Canine Good Citizen® certificate for dogs passing the CGC test, a free initial veterinary visit, a trial offer of pet health insurance and discounted coupons for dog supplies."

I think that's pretty cool!

 

[labby]

It's sparking a lot of controversy on the dog lists. UKC has been doing it for awhile now. As long as the dogs registered have to be de-sexed I don't have a problem with it. Otherwise, it's just going to legitimize the doodle breeders which would not be a good thing.

 

[justine]

It's sparking a lot of controversy on the dog lists. UKC has been doing it for awhile now. As long as the dogs registered have to be de-sexed I don't have a problem with it. Otherwise, it's just going to legitimize the doodle breeders which would not be a good thing.

Oh yeah, I didn't think about that... Now I see how it could be problematic. I think the de-sexed thing would at least help out a bit. Abbey's spayed anyways, so it doesn't make a difference to me.

 

[labby]

They aren't requiring de-sexing before registration like they do with an ILP?

 

[justine]

They aren't requiring de-sexing before registration like they do with an ILP?

No, they do have to be spayed/neutered.

http://www.akc.org/mixedbreeds/

If you click on "View program details," it says so there.

 

[Dani]

How will it legitimicize doodle breeders? It's for competition purposes...not breeding. I don't think it's necessarily a good thing, but I guess I'm confused by that statement.

 

[labby]

They can start showing their doodles in shows. Yes it's only obedience or other performance, but now they can show titles on their dogs.

 

[labby]

Well that's good at least.

 

[MicksMom]

It's sparking a lot of controversy on the dog lists. UKC has been doing it for awhile now. As long as the dogs registered have to be de-sexed I don't have a problem with it. Otherwise, it's just going to legitimize the doodle breeders which would not be a good thing.

It still can, Laura- first generation doodles can be registered. As the previous owner of mixed breeds, part of me is thrilled that AKC is accepting them in performance events (it always bugged me that I couldn't show Mick in AKC obedience) Then there's the part of me that's been around the dog world long enough now to know that people take advantage and will start intentionaly breeding mixes to sell as performance dogs. And that bugs the daylights out of me.

 

[windycanyon]

They can start showing their doodles in shows. Yes it's only obedience or other performance, but now they can show titles on their dogs.

And I can see it now, "A Labradoodle that was bred here at Doodlemania Kennels out of Fluffy and Joe got a better score than..." the purebred Labs/Poodles, etc, so therefore................ "And oh btw, we'll be repeating this litter for the 4th time in May, and no we don't need any of those fancy clearances or gene testing because our hybrids are healthier don't you know".

I was sent a post from an obed list that shared the plans of the Doodlers to set up tent at agility trials and sell their puppies as by accepting their entry fees, they will be entitled. That would last about 3 minutes in my club (the time it'll take me to get to their set up and put them on referral)!

I voted no and am personally upset that after 125 yrs of touting the benefits of owning Purebred dogs, that the AKC has stooped to doing this for their own financial interests. As a board member of a member club, it now means we have to change our mission statements on our CBLs and any other references to purebred dogs. We've always allowed mixed breeds in our training classes and non-sanctioned matches but now we can add more ribbon purchases to our already full agility trials as we'll be adding a new set of classes (24", 20", 16, 12, 8, 4 mixed Std, yaddy ya maybe x 2 if they do an A and a B class!). It won't ADD any more entries, and in fact may knock some long time supporters out of the trial if/when our trials fill.

And as "discussed" in the Sec notes in the Gazette, just where are they going to draw the line w/ things-- how would you like your lab potentially being next to a wolf hybrid in the obed ring for sits/downs (which may be combined per judges' discretion if groups are small)? How many of these first time competitors will have dogs truly ready (socialization wise) for the ring or will the rest of us suffer the same attacks we used to in agility w/ some of the ill mannered, uncontrolled ILP dogs that passed for breeds that left us scratching our heads?

I know I sound snobbish here, but I REALLY like knowing the basic temperament that comes w/ a pure BREED. And I think that people owning purebred dogs have more at risk from a punative stance if their dog acts up at a trial. If one of our dogs lost their AKC privileges, it's a big deal to our program. It will be nothing to these folks.

I see this as nothing but a pain for the clubs. Fortunately our club doesn't hold stand alone obed trials but I am pretty sure this will impact our agility trials. What is next? Chesadors and Doodles at hunt tests? I just see little overall good coming from this. My club voted yes on the proposal, btw, so I guess I'm just a real stick in the mud! Anne

 

[brody]

"Then beginning April 1, 2010 enrolled dogs will be eligible to compete in mixed breed classes "

no freaking thank you ... why would I want to be singled out and isolated because I happen to run a mixed breed ...
In aac and cpe I compete with who ever is my own level
paying for the privledge of being seperated from the purebred dogs make me gag honestly

if they had been sincere they'd run mixed breeds in with the real dogs
this is a cash grab and it's going to be a headache

 

[Dani]

From my understanding they won't be competing against purebreeds...the mixed breed class is for only those shows who choose to have it. Interesting though.

 

[kaytris]

They are trying to please both the purebred-strict folks and the mixed breed enthusiasts by splitting the trials, and it's already backfiring big time.

Most mixed breed folks don't want to ride the back of the bus (or be on another bus entirely...)

I can't see this succeeding except in areas that don't have CPE/NADAC/USDAA/UKC.

As for increased attacks from badly behaved mixed breeds? you think attacks don't happen at conformation shows? The worst attack I've directly heard about involved a breed recognized by the CKC leaving the agility ring and attacking a mixed breed.

 

[windycanyon]

As for increased attacks from badly behaved mixed breeds? you think attacks don't happen at conformation shows? The worst attack I've directly heard about involved a breed recognized by the CKC leaving the agility ring and attacking a mixed breed.

And believe me, I've seen some bad attacks also, but have seen far more consistently bad behavior at training events w/ 4Hers and mixed breed pet owners --and they leave me a "Nervous Nelly" now that this passed. I remember what AKC agility was like just 6 or so years ago. Had a dog attacked on 4 different occasions for just having to walk by the thugs (at heel--- she was a very well behaved CDX, SH, OA, OAJ titled dog). I never got so much as an apology from any of the owners, just excuses that they were rescues, terriers or whatever (why they were not crated if so nervous was beyond me!). Thank god she didn't "bite back" as in one case it would have been construed as the big dog eating the little dog. Instead, my dog got the message that agility was not a fun sport for quite some time, and we left that venue for a couple years. My concern is that the first few years on this program are potentially going to return us to that time-- until all the nasty dogs prove themselves at other's expense, that is, and are expelled for life.

Right now, many of the clubs are hanging on their agility trial profits to stay afloat due to the increased costs AKC and others have imposed. Take away even a small amount of profit from agility, some of us are sunk. Anne

 

[kaytris]

remember what AKC agility was like just 6 or so years ago

at that time, AKC was not accepting mixed breeds, so I'm not quite sure what your point is? And 4-H'ers are children, no? Certainly the majority of agility competitors at AKC or other non-4H groups are adults... even the Jr. Handlers I've seen at AAC events are running their parent's dogs (usually already titled in the same venue). I don't think you can equate a 4H event (lowcost, informal, I would assume) with an AKC trial (expensive, formal and well-managed), with or without mixed breeds....

 

[brody]

"my dog got the message that agility was not a fun sport"

been there; done that when my mixed breed youth at her first trial was lifted off the ground and shaken by a purebred and punctured quite badly - a carefully breed one owner puppy dog .. who also didn't apologize and tried hard to convince me that I shouldn't complain as her dogs wasn't really agressive ..luckily for me the dog had left the ring while being judged and the judge was ADAMENT that the attacking be banned - she judges a variety of events for different organizations and coudn't believe the severity of the attack

so forgive me for not buying that purebred or mixed bred has ANYTHING to do with aggression and snarky behaviour ... some breeds (and mixes) are more or less prone to it but it happens across the board

I would hope that precious purebreds would be protected by not havign to compete directly against the mixed breeds- they shouldn't be at the gate when it isn't their class anyhow so will protected by being provoked into perhaps being banned from the akc ..
(I do actually understand what you are saying about the penalty being harsher for people who want to compete in many areas - perhaps that means they should exercise more caution though?)
I'm miserable tonight ... forgive me if I sound snarky but I have been thinking about your post most of the day - the whole thing sucks to my mind .. but I don't think blaming mixed breeds for anything is the heart of the issue really

 

[nicole]

I really have mixed feelings on it all...

I have friends with mix breed dogs who are obviously excited about being able to play in AKC. But the fact that it'll be different classes is just stupid and will be a pain in the ass for clubs. I also look at flyball and see what has been done to create the "ultimate" dog for that sport (border-jacks, border-staffys, etc). It's beginning to be seen in the organizations who already accept mixbreeds and I'll guess it'll only get worse with AKC's greenlight.

 

[labby]

I can't imagine how long an agility trial will run if you add mix breed classes into it all also. Good grief.

 

[MicksMom]

"my dog got the message that agility was not a fun sport"

been there; done that when my mixed breed youth at her first trial was lifted off the ground and shaken by a purebred and punctured quite badly - a carefully breed one owner puppy dog .. who also didn't apologize.../quote]

Been there, done that, too. Years ago, my older son was taking Mick (Lab/English Setter mix) out to pee at a match. I had my back to the door as I was a post for figure 8's when I heard a horrendous snarl/growl. Do you know how scary it is to hear that and then have the person facing you say, "Don't worry, your son & dog are OK."? Turns out a Pyr went after Mick as they walked past. AND, that dog was there for socialization because he was known to do that. I had worked very hard at getting Mick over his insecurty problems. For months after that he would panic anytime a large hairy dog was near us, even Golden Retrievers he had previously played with.

 

[windycanyon]

so forgive me for not buying that purebred or mixed bred has ANYTHING to do with aggression and snarky behaviour ... some breeds (and mixes) are more or less prone to it but it happens across the board

I'm sorry, I knew that was going to sound bad as it's so hard to express things sometimes. What I was trying to say was...

Whenever you have a new group of people join a sport, it seems a bit overwhelming to the people who have been "there", know many of the participating dogs in their classes, and all are used to the routine. The folks running dogs currently that may have some issues w/ space or whatever, know fully well to keep their dogs occupied and out of the congested areas until just before they enter the gate.

I unfortunately know a few of the people locally who will likely be very excited about all this, but they are not getting good firm guidance from the instructors about control of their dogs (w/ iffy temperaments), and some of these are young teenagers who don't really grasp the seriousness of the situation for others.

When I started agility with my one dog, it was primarily some ILPs (rescues owned pretty much by well meaning, but not well counseled, pet owners) that were my biggest problem. Yes, one was an AKC terrier... but dummy me, I thought because it was a Border terrier (pretty nice happy little dogs by standard), and the owner seemed to have no concerns when chatting w/ me about her dog (I was interested potentially in one), I thought all was fine. Imagine my surprise when she told me after he attacked that "well, for some reason he doesn't like Black dogs!" (geee, thanks for letting me know lady!).

So yes, you are absolutely correct in saying it's not all about purebred or mixed on temperament but BY AND LARGE, a purebred dog is more predictable for temperament. *I* know not to trust certain dogs-- herding dogs esp, when we are in congested areas. And terriers, well.. But, bringing in some of the newly accepted breeds and now, mixes, will add much more uncertainty to the situation. And with inexperienced, less than well guided owners, that is my concern that the initial phase is going to difficult for clubs.

My impression is that the trials will run classes like A/B/mixed, so yes, the mixed breeds will likely run right behind or ahead of the other dogs in the same height class. Anne