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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am mortified. Last night i opened Guthrie's mouth and noticed his gums are very inflamed and red....he has gingivitis. He is only 2 years old! He has never been a chewer...doesn't even rip up his soft stuffy toys.

Huckle used to get large amounts of tarter buildup and periodically I would scale his teeth. His gums were never very inflamed. Guthrie does not have that much tarter but his gums look terrible.

I hate the thought of having to brush his teeth every day....and even worse the thought of having to put him under anesthesia to clean his teeth.

Could adding some Raw to his diet help? Would it be OK to just feet a little raw?

Edited to add:
I am not entirely convinced that he does not have an immune issue causing this inflammation. Last month I had to take him to the vet for what I thought was a hot spot under his armpit. Turns out it was just a little scratch...it baffled me that a tiny scratch could have turned into this weaping, swollen, beefy red area....I am beginning to fear he has no immune system. Those that have followed my posts might remember his horrid hive reaction and more recently his scary infection from a puncture to his gums.
 

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Megan, oh Megan. Eeee!

Yes, raw can most definitely help. You know my Peanut? Very similar to Guthrie in terms of "issues". Same intermittent swolly-face, lumpy bumpy syndrome, Peanut has also struggled with generalized demodectic mange (as a pup), oral papillomas and allergies (all wonky-immune-system stuff).

She's fantastic on raw, with some select supplements to help with the immune issues. I think I would be looking at serious, life long medication protocols with her if it hadn't been for raw. You would never know she had any problems at all to look at her and be around her, I finally have a 'normal' little dog and for that I will be forever grateful.

Anyhoo, teeth! I'm gonna try and dig up my before/after shots... hold on a sec...

Here we go!

So, here is the right hand side of Peanut's teeth "before" the raw switch:




And this is the right hand side of Peanut's teeth "after" the switch:




Here is left hand side of her teeth "before"




And "after":





She wasn't all that bad before, but she's much better now! She's four and a half and has never had a dental, and for a toy breed dog that's pretty darn good. I predict she will probably never need one, as her teeth look fantastic still.

Both dogs only ever get a bit of plaque/tartar on the tops of their canines, and I just flick it off with a fingernail if I see it, no biggie.

If you have any more questions at all, I would be MORE than happy to help. just PM me and I'll give you my personal e-mail. Yay for raw!!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hey Kate!
That is just the info I was hoping for. I can't tell you how horrid I feel....his gums look terrible. And it is really weird because he is young, he is not a tiny breed(I know they have teeth issues) and he does not have that hard yellow calculous stuff that Huckle used to get.

From the very moment his adult teeth came in they were discolored. I mentioned it to the vet and she was not concered about it at all. I will definately take pictures and post so you can see(and so I can have a reference picture like you have with Peanut). Keep in mind that the yellow staining has been there since he was a wee pup.

I am debated whether to take him back to the vet again...having just had him there 3 weeks ago for scratch on his armpit.....that visit cost $80!! Totally ridiculous.

I am more and more convinced that RAW is the way to go.

So, for starters.....what can I give him as a trial? Turkey neck?
 

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Was he on antibiotics as a pup? Antibiotics can cause tooth discoloration in dogs as well as people when they are taken at an early age. Baloo has some discoloration on his molars from early antibiotics. So does Dan. ;)

It's tough because kibble and raw really don't mix well together. I'd just do your reading and then take the plunge! :D

Although I doubt Guthrie would mind very much if he got a premature turkey neck, lol! Just give it to him away from his kibble meals. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ok...now I am even more upset. Maybe this does necessitate a vet visit. Zooming in on these photos makes me feel sick.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
He was not on antibiotics until after his adult teeth had come in....at 7 months when he had the hive thingy. But then again...I guess it is possible the breeder had him on something before I got him at 8 weeks.
 

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I honestly wouldn't worry too much about that, looks like fairly mild gingivitis/build up that "nature's toothbrush" can easily handle. ;)

I think a part of dental hygiene issues are genetic as well. I know a dog who eats beneful (barf!) and has his whole life, with beautiful, pearl white teeth. I also know a raw fed dog who, while much better than he ever was on kibble, still needs brushings here and there. So while I think that raw can most definitely increase your chances of long-lasting hygiene (especially for dogs prone to poor dental health) it still comes down to genetics for part of it.
 

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Kate - my experiences matches your last post - while raw, brushing, vet dentristries CAN be helpful just like people some animals are pronce to tartar accumulations or gum disease


Hark - one thing to be careful of is raw and immune issues - for some dogs they work well for others a cooked diet is a better fit ...

balancing everything a pooch needs is challenging ...believe me I know - I live with a dog who should have been dead at 4 months of age ... she's now nearly THREE!

hang in there
 

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I don't agree necessarily that a cooked diet is better than raw for immunodeficient dogs. But you do what you feel is comfortable and you can change as you see fit.
Raw is fairly easy to balance and when you are not cooking it, you do not have to worry about denaturing and the upset of bioavailability. Once you start cooking, you have to start supplementing with bone meal powder and will really risk loss of balance in the diet.
I started out cooking about fifteen years ago when I swore off kibble. I did that for about 6 months I think before I moved on to raw.
 

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I don't agree necessarily that a cooked diet is better than raw for immunodeficient dogs.
pretty sure I didn't say that either - I only suggested caution



oh look here is the quote :

"for some dogs they {raw diets} work well for others a cooked diet is a better fit"


all about what works for the animal in my view - balance that with what works for you and you are set ...
 

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OK, well as long as we are being rude, read my post again and you will see that I clearly stated that in no case is a cooked diet better than raw for an immunodeficient dog 'in my opinion'. I think it fairly obvious from my post that I see no need for caution when feeding a species appropriate food.
 

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Good lord ...

"we" were being rude??

"we" apologize then - it wasn't my intention to derail this post - only stand by my assertion that doing what works is the way I do it - and I have had some success with some variety of issues

you, the expert, in nutrition obviously know more than "we" do on this topic

I'm sure none of this helps hark much and for that I apologize as well

Hark - try raw if you want- you'll decide if it works for you or not .. and for your pooches teeth too :)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I really do appreciate all your opinions and help with this. Ultimately, I think we all can agree that we have to do what is best for our pups. :) I just wish they came with a manual that said exactly what was best for them!

It definately helps to hear everyones opinion on the matter. I attended a Dr Dodds seminar this spring. She made it clear the she is a RAW proponent but that there are dogs that she felt would not be candidates for RAW...specifically ones that have GI motility issues. Had I not been to that seminar I would not have known that. I am glad she shared this.

What I am saying is that I value BOTH of your(Fallriver and Brody) posts on this topic. Thank you both for chiming in.


I honestly wouldn't worry too much about that, looks like fairly mild gingivitis/build up that "nature's toothbrush" can easily handle.
Hey Kate,
Good thing you don't have the abilty to zoom in!!! It is really super gross....looks like the gums tissue is like little red squiggly threads down his teeth.
 
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