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This has been in the news a lot lately.... WTC 7 fell on the day of the 9-11 attacks. Only problem is, no plane hit WTC7 and it appeared to come down like a controlled demo. Also, the British press was reporting it was down 23 minutes before it actually fell. The owner was interviewed and claims he discussed the situation with the fire dept and decided to "pull it". Lots more interesting facts and
info out there if you want to Google it...

I just wondered if any of you have seen "In Plane Sight", "Loose Change" or any of the conspiracy docs....what do you think?

I am especially interested in hearing what Mark thinks, since he was an eye witness to the Pentagon attack.
 

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I can't speak to the specifics of the WTC tragedy, but my general position on conspiracy theories is that they presuppose a level of competence and coordination on the part of the government and corporate elites that I just don't think exists. The government can't even pass a halfway decent budget on time!

The conspiracy theories are addressed, pro and con, on Wikipedia. See for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center.
 
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If there is one subject that will inflame me, it's the 9/11 conspiracy theorists. Unfortunately, like the Kennedy assassination, this will never end because no matter what proof you find to the contrary, conspiracy theorists will always point to some obscure "fact" or circumstance to "prove" their theories.

Given the confusion of what was taking place in New York as the towers fell, would any rational person be surprised that there are inconsistencies in reporting timelines, in visual reportings, etc? Take 3 people who all witness the same tragic occurrance and all 3 will report some things differently. Look at instances where people have seen plane crashes - there are always differences in what people saw - and each person thinks what he/she saw is what really happened. Add the stress of 9/11 and you have a situation rife with possibilities for inconsistent observations.

Sometime when I have the time - and courage - I'll tell you about my own personal memories of the Pentagon attack. I will offer that my "conscious" memories are not totally consistent with what I know I saw - it took weeks for the actual memories to flood back through nightmares until I was finally able to reconcile all I saw that day. Years later, it still comes flooding back at times. So, it makes perfect sense to me that people can "think" they saw or heard things that day. Stress, trauma and fear make the mind work in unusual ways to allow us to cope. It's easy for conspiracy theorists to poke holes because what people think they saw does not jive with reality - what they report is what their mind created in coping.

I just can't say any more about people who really believe that our government would cause something like this tragedy or allow it to happen. They are just sick.

There are lots of theorists out there who claim the same about the Pentagon attack - that a plane didn't hit the building. No plane parts were found. No bodies. And it goes on.

I pulled a few pictures I've accumulated over the years since the attack.

Here's several of plane wreckage at the Pentagon.







Here's a picture taken that shows where the nose of the plane pushed out of the inner wall of the "C" ring. I saw this hole personally - far too big for a missile or smaller aircraft that the conspiracy folks say hit the Pentagon. And note the aircraft debris.



I have another picture I won't post. Some conspiracy folks point out that military personnel were "spotted" carrying out green and blue bags after dark. They claim this proves that "evidence" of something other than a plane hitting the Pentagon was removed. Those bags were body bags - if you search the net you can find the pictures out there - and they were brought out at night to try to prevent a media frenzy and protect the dignity of the dead and the feelings of the family members who lost loved ones.

I admit to having an emotional tie to this - and that undoubtedly jades my feelings and fuels my dislike of the conspiracy theorists. All they do is to make it harder for the families of people lost and injured to gain closure on their devastation.
 

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Mark -

Thank you for weighing in. It seems that the further and further we get from Sept 11, 2001, the more memory starts to fade as to what happened to us and why. I imagine, like the Holocaust, that in 50 years or so, there will be people who claim it never happened at all.

As long as you keep sharing your story, though, the full brunt of the blow we were dealt will not be swept away, buried under a pile of rhetoric, revisionism, politics, or just plain bullshit.

We have a good friend who survived Tower 2 on Sept 11, unscathed. He worked there during the 1993 bombing and knew -- based on it 'feeling very much like the same impact' -- that something terrible had happened. Despite the official word to return to work because all was well, he left his office and walked out immediately.

Saved his life.
 
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dweck said:
Mark -

Thank you for weighing in. It seems that the further and further we get from Sept 11, 2001, the more memory starts to fade as to what happened to us and why. I imagine, like the Holocaust, that in 50 years or so, there will be people who claim it never happened at all.

As long as you keep sharing your story, though, the full brunt of the blow we were dealt will not be swept away, buried under a pile of rhetoric, revisionism, politics, or just plain bullshit.

We have a good friend who survived Tower 2 on Sept 11, unscathed. He worked there during the 1993 bombing and knew -- based on it 'feeling very much like the same impact' -- that something terrible had happened. Despite the official word to return to work because all was well, he left his office and walked out immediately.

Saved his life.
Dan,

My cousin has the same story. Heard the intercom saying "stay where you are", knew from another cousin's experience in 93 that something bad was happening and decided to get the hell out of Dodge. He wouldn't be here today otherwise.

Mark,

Thanks for that information and for sharing so many things that must bring back memories that are painful. I wish people had more respect and simple decency.
 
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