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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Edward is 14wks and his testes have not descended yet.
Dx:Cryptorchidism -
"If the testicle has not descended into the scrotum by approximately two months of age, there usually is little chance that further descent will occur."

Well.... I probably wasn't going to breed him and most likely was going to have him neutered. I paid a premium price for a premium dog. Now the choice is really not mine. Cryptorchid dogs should not be allowed to breed. Furthermore, If left in place testicular cancer is likely. Now Edward has to undergo a more extensive surgery and the surgery is considerably more expensive than neutering, since they have to go search for the undescended testicles.

Most experts agree that if the testes have not descended by 8wks then they will not descend.....which leads me to my next question:
Shouldn't a breeder have known this!
Should the breeder have some financial responsibility?

To put it lightly.....I am a bit upset.

What do you guys/gals think....?
 

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Yes the breeder should have known this and yes you should have been told. Was the puppy purchased on full registration or limited? If the later, you already made your choice that you wouldn't be breeding, so this really isn't that much of an issue. The incision will be a little larger, but the surgery isn't that much more exciting. Do contact your breeder...besides wanting to know, many will cover the cost of the neuter that is over the "normal" neutering.
 

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Your breeder should have known...and yes, its fair to ask for him/her to pay for any extra costs incurred in the neuter.

That said, have your vet take a real good feel around (with warm hands) and perhaps an ultrasound. I like to akin the looking for infant testes to finding a raisin within a bowl of pudding, and they're often not always too far off. When he's really relaxed, give him a good belly rub and dig around a little. They're not going to be huge, but often times if you're patient (and gentle) you can find them.

I wouldn't worry about cancer etc, since I am sure he will be neutered anyways, as per your breeder, no?

You still have a premium dog. Your dog's worth does not balance on whether or not he has two testicles. And quite frankly, the way you've written it, would startle me a bit.

AND, its not all that unlikely that they will descend after 8 weeks. I've known some who waited almost a year.
 

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What they said. The breeder should have checked before the pup was sold and you told there was a problem. However, the little boys can play hide and seek sometimes. I've known of pups that went home with two testicles only to have one or both go up and down for a few months until they finally dropped for good at 4-5 months.

Most reputable breeders will pay the extra cost involved in the neutering. Do contact your breeder but I warn you not to be confrontational. Most do not respond well to threats or aggression, especially if you want something out of them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
To be honest.... It's not so much the cost of things.... hell, I paid 2k for the puppy, 1.5K for the fence.
It's the avoidance of possible disclosure that bothers me.
Everything depends on honesty and trust.
I would have been 100% OK if she told me that she picked this puppy for us because we did not intend to breed and that we would have to absolutely remove his testes due to potential problems with undescended testes. However, this was not the case.
My disappointment is more with the lack of disclosure.
 

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Have the testicles ever been there? Like I said in my post, they can play peek-a-boo sometimes. Maybe they were there when the pup was sold but disappeared afterwards? If they haven't been there at all, then yes you have a legitimate complaint. Call the breeder and calmly discuss the situation.
 

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When you tell the breeder, what's the proper response?

...

OH, NUTS!

=)
 

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I would agree with letting him go a little longer. That being said, Jake was cryptorchid and we went to 11 months before I finally threw my hands up and we went into the abdomen to fish that sucker out. His breeder also told us that he was cryptorchid when we took him, and that he had an umbilical hernia (that didn't fix itself either unfortunately!), but we wanted him anyway so we were okay with the extra cost.

However, about a month ago I examined a puppy (8 weeks). Did my usual head to butt exam and yep - two testicles. Sweet. Went out, spoke with my senior clinician, blah blah blah two testicles present. She went in about 20 min later - one testicle present. Whoops. She talked a while, I played with the puppy, I talked some more, she checked. Two testicles. They really do slip in and out in the young ones. That being said, I would absolutely ask the breeder about it. The puppies were checked by a vet before she sold them right? Ask to have a copy of the exam faxed and that will tell you if there were two or one present (as well as any other abnormalities present)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Your breeder should have known...and yes, its fair to ask for him/her to pay for any extra costs incurred in the neuter.

That said, have your vet take a real good feel around (with warm hands) and perhaps an ultrasound. I like to akin the looking for infant testes to finding a raisin within a bowl of pudding, and they're often not always too far off. When he's really relaxed, give him a good belly rub and dig around a little. They're not going to be huge, but often times if you're patient (and gentle) you can find them.

I wouldn't worry about cancer etc, since I am sure he will be neutered anyways, as per your breeder, no?

You still have a premium dog. Your dog's worth does not balance on whether or not he has two testicles. And quite frankly, the way you've written it, would startle me a bit.

AND, its not all that unlikely that they will descend after 8 weeks. I've known some who waited almost a year.
-Agree... I still have a premium dog whether or not he has or doesn't have testes (a feminist may however disagree....LOL).
-I am a physician and would hope to be able to identify testicles....LOL again.
-The Vet has examined him and also agrees that the testes have not dropped and most likely they will not.

I have contacted the breeder (not confrontational) and let her know of this. She told me that none of the other two male puppies have this this problem.
Furthermore, she responded with "there are no guarantees". However possibly she did say she could probably help out a little bit.
Good start I think.... But the real question, I have yet to ask her.... "Did you know about this when you sold him to me, and didn't the vet who examined him and microchiped him know about this...?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Wow.... Just talked to the Vet.... if they are in the abdomen....+/- $700
If in the inguinal canal +/- $500

I'm not happy!
 

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Scratching my head at the feminist comment - don't get it frankly. Since I am a member of that club I really ought to get it, no?

I understand your dissapointment and feeling that you have perhaps been less that well informed. Ask for the vet report from their puppy exam if it will make you feel better to review it.

They are living things - sometimes you run into issues. I have a rescue Lab who will cost me $700 bucks a year for his whole life for insulin alone - not including the fact that he goes to the vet 2x as much as a healthy dog. Oh, and the $2700- I spent getting his cataracts removed so he would not be a blind 3 year old dog. I anticipate that there are more surprises ahead with him.

**** happens - you roll with it if you love the dog.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yes, unexpected things and expenses will come up. My issue is more about disclosure and honesty than the cost.
Edward has brought many smiles and joy to my kids.
That is worth any expense.
 

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My daughter's pup had this. We waited until about 6 months, and then on the advice of the vet went ahead and neutered him. I think it was only about $150 more than a normal neuter. His breeder did not offer to reimburse us, but then again we didn't ask.
Since we were planning on neutering him anyway, it wasn't really an issue that I was too upset about. I figured, stuff happens, he is still a great dog.
I understand about feeling that the breeder should have warned you, though.
 

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Have you been corresponding by email with your breeder? This type of thing would warrant a phone conversation in my opinion. Emails can be misunderstood, because you don't hear the inflection of voice, tone etc... That you would have in person or by phone. Why haven't you asked your breeder yet if the testicle was descended at one time? By the way, just because the male litter-mates don't have this problem, doesn't mean anything.

If one of my puppy families had this issue, I would want to support them, and if I knew about an undescended testicle, I would surely have let the puppy family know, (at the time of transfer) as well as it being marked on the well puppy vet visit paperwork that each family gets a copy of. Please consider the possibility that it was descended at 8 weeks or so, when he left the breeder's, and that your breeder isn't out to lie and deceive you, you may get more assistance from them. I think the well puppy check up papers will clear things up for everyone, if you can get a copy of that (if it was done).
 

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Wow.... Just talked to the Vet.... if they are in the abdomen....+/- $700
If in the inguinal canal +/- $500

I'm not happy!
Any chance your office charged the vet a bit too much for a procedure recently??? :smokin: Sorry, just had to ask.... as I'm not always too happy w/ my doctor's bills either! And my vet is doing a major remodel/expansion and holy cow...

That aside, I find testicles to be difficult to find in some 8 wk old puppies. Sometimes you get the litter that is so obvious a kid could find them, but often times, it's not so. My last litter was one that I said "I THINK I felt all the boys' goods, but that's one reason I pay YOU". I have a vet sheet that goes home w/ each puppy and that info is included on it for the boys-- and the vet's phone number is listed if there are any questions later. Thankfully the vet has found them all at 8 wks and I've had no surprises.

And yes, many breeders will offer to pay the difference in neuter surgeries for undescended testes but if I felt the cost was exorbitant, I may ask that my own vet's charges be the guideline or such.

But really, at what point do you just have to say, oh well, it was the hand I was dealt, so I'll deal with it? What happens when something like that goes sideways w/ one of your kids?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Any chance your office charged the vet a bit too much for a procedure recently??? :smokin: Sorry, just had to ask.... as I'm not always too happy w/ my doctor's bills either! And my vet is doing a major remodel/expansion and holy cow...


But really, at what point do you just have to say, oh well, it was the hand I was dealt, so I'll deal with it? What happens when something like that goes sideways w/ one of your kids?
- Hell, next time I see a pregnant Vet...$$2x for her or no epidural.....LOL
Just kidding.....I do lots of pro-bono surgeries for the local free clinic.... so its never about the money.
I love what I do and will continue with it.

As far as the cost...yes, at some point you just roll with it. I will just have to shop around. The cost that this one vet quoted me sounds kind of high for such a simple surgery (maybe I should offer to help with the surgery itself...LOL.... I am a surgeon)

As far as dealing with the breeder.... always on good terms (she even has picts of Edward on her website). I called her and talked to her as previously noted. I didn't ask her for the puppy physical Vet papers but maybe I should...... However at this point I think I should just deal with it and let bygones be bygones.
 

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we had this with our dog chrome. We adopted him at 5 months old and this became an apparent issue amongst other medical issues on his first vet visit. Due to other more serious medical issues he wasn't neutered until the age of 1 and his testical had dropped by then. Perhaps he needs more time. I have had health issues from a pure bred puppy, its best just to deal with the issue and move on. That is good that your keeping your breeder up to date tho. I hope everything works out for the better for Edward, what a handsome Pup
 

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My friend's lab puppy was cryptorchoid also. Neuter was done at 11 months. Unfortunately surgery turned out to be very difficult and long(I think she said 2+hrs because they could not locate the one testicle). I believe the surgery total was something like $1300. She also paid 2K for her dog.
 

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As far as the cost...yes, at some point you just roll with it. I will just have to shop around. The cost that this one vet quoted me sounds kind of high for such a simple surgery (maybe I should offer to help with the surgery itself...LOL.... I am a surgeon)
Be sure to mention that a lot. At least as much as you do on here. Vets love that. :blah:
 
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