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Discussion Starter #1
(for background on the situation read the thread about apollo nipping at sam)

Now I'm frustrated. I came all the way back to sam's house tonight and I had to stop studying cuz I was really upset about apollo nipping at sam's crotch.

I am trying to stay calm and project a sense of calm for apollo but I'm frustrated with Sam. I will need to go to my dorm tommorow night and so sam will have to walk apollo. Sam's at the store right now, I told him. "pick up some kosher hot dogs for apollo.Tommorow when you walk him just crumble the hot dog and pop pieces in his mouth the whole walk so that he doesn't freak out." Sam is frustrated with apollo and he's like "I don't wanna get anything for that do after he tried to bite my crotch." I am trying to explain to sam without freaking out that he NEEDS to keep calm, unattached, and neutral around apollo, that he can't be 'angry' with apollo cuz apollo will pick up on that and only be more fearful of sam, but sam's not listening he's not just letting it go. I understand he's frustrated with apollo but I feel that if sam keeps his attitude like this then apollo will stay fearful, then apollo will bite, then sam will be pissed, then apollo will be fearful......and it will just go in a cycle. I am begging sam to please ignore apollo when he's in the house and distract him with food when he has to walk him and I can't be there. aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

Any tips on how to train sam? If he doesn't drop the "im upset with you" attitude towards apollo then apollo is NEVER gunna trust him. OMG I need a friggen drink after all this!
 

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Re: Screw the dog, its my b/f that needs to be trained

Sounds as if there might be more to your problem than you realize.

Sam doesn't like Apollo. He seems to have no patience for him.
Also sounds to me like two males are competing for your attention.

Is there a possibility that Sam actually did do something to Apollo? Perhaps, when you're not around?

Maybe Apollo snapped at his crotch and Sam reacted?

Question.....Are you FORCING Sam to be part of Apollo's life? Maybe he doesn't want to have anything to do with a hyper lab.

my .02 cents
 

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Re: Screw the dog, its my b/f that needs to be trained

Some people aren't cut out for it.

I had a foster Golden - who was actually intended to be "my dog" who was there on trial. After he bit me and Luke, I was pissed- I had spent a lot of time, money, and energy with this dog (he had pneumonia, kennel cough, other issues)- then it happened again repeatedly- and then he went back to the rescue. I can understand a bit of what Sam is feeling- he's stressed about the move and he's spending a lot of time, energy, and money on this **** dog and this is what he gets?

Can Apollo live with you and your mom when you get here? Your mom loves dogs right? What if you just level with her and say that Apollo is actually Sams dog, but has all these issues, etc?
 

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Re: Screw the dog, its my b/f that needs to be trained

I think it is understandable that Sam is upset with the situation. Patience is the key here but we only have so much of it. Everyone has a limit. Apollo snapping last night probably made Sam wonder why he is still bothering. As someone said in the other thread, it will get worse before it gets better.

I realise how big an issue this is for both or you but I think you should step back for awhile. I find that the more intensely you focus on something negative the worse you feel.

I think Sam must realise that Apollo's insecurities will never go away. He WILL improve with time but they will not go completely. On the grand scale of things you haven't had Apollo very long. A few months, right? it is still early days.
 

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Re: Screw the dog, its my b/f that needs to be trained

I don't remember Apollo's history, what is his history with men? I really think Apollo was abused by a man where ever he came from, if he is this scared of Sam, you have to consider that is a possibility. Apollo may never get along with Sam, you have to also consider that as well.

I'm sorry but I would be totally cautious if any dog, snapped at someone or another animal. I would be like Sam (even though I'm not a guy) and be pissed, wouldn't you if you where in his shoes?

I had a dog nip me, I knew this dog, this dog was in my apartment for almost two months, you could sit be side this dog, but if the dog wasn't please with something she would snap, growl, and nip.

We were trying to wake her up, we called her, she ignored us, she ended up getting pissed at us and nipping and snapping at us. That dog ended up booted out as soon as the original owner came back from the hospital (the owner went into a home for the elderly, but broke her hip, she took the dog back though after explaining), the dog didn't attack her! The dog was older about 10 yrs old.

She attacked everyone in my grandmother's family for no reason, I just think the dog was nuts. I'm surprised that my grandmother ended up keeping Vickki for us!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: Screw the dog, its my b/f that needs to be trained

Sam really loves apollo but he's frustrated with him. To be honest I don't blame him, apollo has destroyed alot of sam's stuff, embarrased sam in front of the whole apartment complex by screaming and whining, etc. I know for a fact that sam has never done ANYTHING to apollo, not even raised his voice at him. Thats why we are so baffled. When its all three of us apollo is fine with sam, he goes up to sam and wags his tail he trys to get sam to play. But when its just the two of them thats when the problems happen.

As for FORCING sam to be apart of apollo's life, no not really. And apollo is actually the most mellow un-hyper lab ever. Sam is just frustrated cuz when we adopted an ADULT dog we were expecting to get one that was housebroken, chew trained, and issue free. Apollo was none of these things. He's peed in the house, ripped crown molding off of doors, and just been a real challenge. Sam and I never wanted a challenge, if we did we would have gotten a puppy, but we love apollo and we want to work with him, its just frustrating to no end. Sam gets frustrated when apollo freaks out with him for no apparnt reason. This dog is like jekel and hyde and its confusing us all.

Its just intestly frustrating. Right now I have a dorm room but I usually spend the night at sam's apartment. The nights when I am away sam has to walk apollo but that's when the issues start, the nipping the whining, the screaming. As soon as I come home he acts totally normal around sam. I'm tired of being his security blanket, I wish he could see that he has nothing to fear about sam. The longer this goes on the harder it becomes for sam and I to be calm, collected, and not upset. Its frustrating as hell when you are frustrated but can't show it cuz the dog will freak out.

As for apollo staying at my mom's apartment, I was HOPING to do that temporarily (while sam looks for a job and an apartment) but he's over their weight limit and to top it off, my mom's already on a shoestring with her complex cuz her dog just recently nipped a maintenance man.
 

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Re: Screw the dog, its my b/f that needs to be trained

I'm a litle confused....
What do you mean he freaks out?
 

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Re: Screw the dog, its my b/f that needs to be trained

BrownDog20 said:
I'm a litle confused....
What do you mean he freaks out?
read her other thread.
 

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Re: Screw the dog, its my b/f that needs to be trained

I'm not going to win any popularity contests today I'm sure, but I think you and Sam need to step back and look at what is in Apollo's best interests here.

I have no idea when you're planning to move back home, but leaving Apollo to live full time with Sam is not fair, really really not fair, to either of them (UNLESS this is AFTER you have met with the behaviourist and begun a training regimen).

Sam should not have to live with a dog that is so terrified of him that he will bite, and Apollo should not be forced to live in a constant state of panic.

If you cannot convince your parents to allow Apollo to come with you, then I think you need to start looking at other arrangements for Apollo.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Re: Screw the dog, its my b/f that needs to be trained

we are afraid that we might have to do this. :'(
 

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Re: Screw the dog, its my b/f that needs to be trained

My biggest fear is who on earth will want to adopt a dog with so many issues. How can I be sure he finds a good home, how can I know that someone won't just 'give up on him' Sam and I are his FOURTH home I feel like if he gets rehomed AGAIN he's gunna have so many trust issues its not even gunna be funny ( I know I would). I fear that he will wind up with an owner that can't handle him and then apollo will just get worse and worse. Who honestly wants to adopt a dog thats got a ton of problems, spend a butt load of money on him, and then have the dog not improve. I don't want to put apollo in a situation like that. I just dont know what to do I am all torn up over this.
 

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Re: Screw the dog, its my b/f that needs to be trained

i'm thinking it might be a bit premature for that. move, give him time to get settled, get the rescue remedy and some doggy prozac, follow kaytris' desensitization program RELIGIOUSLY, meet with Matt, and take the shy dog class. Then consider rehoming.

I think you're jumping some steps there- you've been given some really good advice and need to try all of it for a lot longer before you give up...
 

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Re: Screw the dog, its my b/f that needs to be trained

I'm torn cuz on one end there is that apollo is scared of sam and on the other end I know apollo would have a nervous breakdown if he was rehomed ( I dont blame him) I feel like I'm in a lose-lose situation. Both decisions (keep vs rehome) have benefits and drawbacks and I am having a horrible time trying to figure out which one is the decision to go with.

I think that with food bribes, rescue remedy, and other things we might be able to make this work. Perhaps it will help apollo trust sam more. Tonight I am not going to be home and sams gunna pop low cal treats into apollo's mouth the whole walk and see what happens. If we can distract apollo from fearing sam then maybe this might work. I feel like rehoming apollo would only worsen apollo's fear of abandonment, I really do.
 

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Re: Screw the dog, its my b/f that needs to be trained

Apollopuppy said:
Tonight I am not going to be home and sams gunna pop low cal treats into apollo's mouth the whole walk and see what happens. If we can distract apollo from fearing sam then maybe this might work. I feel like rehoming apollo would only worsen apollo's fear of abandonment, I really do.
Is there anyway you stay in the same place with Sam and Apollo? If I read this post correctly, you are living between a dorm and Sam's apartment. Apollo who has issues with Sam and abandonment, is probably a wreck without his one known comfort,you.

I might totally misunderstand the situation and pardon me if I did. I think all dogs need to know that the same people will be in the same place with them, consistently. Once a dog realizes that this is home and these are my people they can adjust when one is gone for a day or two. Apollo has special needs as he has been rehomed once before. Add the confusion of who is there to care for him, might be making this worse.

Just my thoughts. Once again if I misunderstood any of the previous posts I apologize in advance.
 

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Re: Screw the dog, its my b/f that needs to be trained

kaytris said:
I'm not going to win any popularity contests today I'm sure, but I think you and Sam need to step back and look at what is in Apollo's best interests here.

I have no idea when you're planning to move back home, but leaving Apollo to live full time with Sam is not fair, really really not fair, to either of them (UNLESS this is AFTER you have met with the behaviourist and begun a training regimen).

Sam should not have to live with a dog that is so terrified of him that he will bite, and Apollo should not be forced to live in a constant state of panic.

If you cannot convince your parents to allow Apollo to come with you, then I think you need to start looking at other arrangements for Apollo.
I agree.
 

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Re: Screw the dog, its my b/f that needs to be trained

labs4life said:
Apollopuppy said:
Tonight I am not going to be home and sams gunna pop low cal treats into apollo's mouth the whole walk and see what happens. If we can distract apollo from fearing sam then maybe this might work. I feel like rehoming apollo would only worsen apollo's fear of abandonment, I really do.
Is there anyway you stay in the same place with Sam and Apollo? If I read this post correctly, you are living between a dorm and Sam's apartment. Apollo who has issues with Sam and abandonment is probably a wreck without his one known comfort,you.

I might totally misunderstand the situation and pardon me if I did. I think all dogs need to know that the same people will be in the same place with them, consistently. Once a dog realizes that this is home and these are my people they can adjust when one is gone for a day or two. Apollo has special needs as he has been rehomed once before. Add the confusion of who is there to care for him, might be making this worse.

Just my thoughts. Once again if I misunderstood any of the previous posts I apologize in advance.
I am always at the house with sam and apollo. I've never spent a night away. I'm at my dorm while sam's at work, but as soon as he's off we go home to be with apollo. I need to spend one night away from home this week because I have to do some check out procedures for my dorm and I have to be there for inspection of the room. When we move to st. louis sam will have his own apartment and I will be living with my parents. I WANT to live with sam, but my parents aren't so much having that...ughhhh!!!

Oh an he's actually been rehomed THREE times before he came to us, possibly more.
 
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