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I have two 1 year old labs, brother and sister (hence the user name). She falls within the normal Lab range. Weighs about 70 lbs. Very smart. They both are, both have been in obedience class and did really well. We still work with them everyday. Her brother is huge, he weighs 105 lbs. and they eat the same amount of food ( he was 2 lbs at birth, c-section). Up until about 2 months ago I could walk them both at the same time, but it's gotten to the point that I've gotten dragged down numerous times when he see's any birds (turkeys, pheasants, chickens )or mongoose. He heels perfectly, and then just bolts after them with me in tow. I'm finally at the point that I just let go. I don't want to get hurt again, and once he see's them he's got a one track mind. If he were in a fenced area it wouldn't be so bad, (not possible) but he doesn't look back once he starts and has almost made it up to a busy highway (About 7 acres away). Scared me to death. I'm starting to dread walking him, and yet I realize he needs the exercise (right now I'm spending at least 11/2 hours a day walking them separately. So to get to the point I was wondering if a pinch collar would help, because the gentle lead and choke chain (both) aren't doing it. He's tried to bolt a few times on my husband but he's a lot bigger than I am and was able to alpha him. I realize he is still in puppy mode, and will be for some time, but I need to keep him safe and me in one piece. I need some input, thanks
 

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I finally had to use a prong on my big boy - it made a world of difference. Just make sure that you get it fitted properly - you have to take them apart, not slip them over their heads (like I first did), they are actually pretty snug when they are on, but don't put any pressure on the dog until you pull it a little.. They are not to be used instead of training, but it sounds like one would help you with your big boy.
 

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None of the above collars will work if a large dog really wants to bolt. A firm "leave it" obedience will work best. Mine will walk right past squirrels, cats, chipmonks, rabbits, and other critters they would normally chase in their yard. Also, I carry high value treats for when I see a potential distraction which they may get excited about. Put them in a sit and slowly feed them treats until distraction is gone. Or sometimes I walk past the distraction as I feed them treats. Remember, short leashes give you best control. If you get tense when you see a potential distraction, they will pick up on it and react. Good luck.
 

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Yes, used properly, a pinch collar will help. But, in my opinion, the best solution is another round or two of training classes, or at least more practicing of what you learned in the classes you took. Also, like you said, they are both still really pups. And they're at that wonderful "terrible teens" point (they act like human teenagers).
 

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None of the above collars will work if a large dog really wants to bolt. A firm "leave it" obedience will work best. Mine will walk right past squirrels, cats, chipmonks, rabbits, and other critters they would normally chase in their yard. Also, I carry high value treats for when I see a potential distraction which they may get excited about. Put them in a sit and slowly feed them treats until distraction is gone. Or sometimes I walk past the distraction as I feed them treats. Remember, short leashes give you best control. If you get tense when you see a potential distraction, they will pick up on it and react. Good luck.

Ditto. If a gentle leader won't stop the bolting I don't think a prong will either, as it's much more easily ignored (in my experience). No equipment will replace the need to train, especially when it comes to loose leash walking.
 

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None of the above collars will work if a large dog really wants to bolt. A firm "leave it" obedience will work best. Mine will walk right past squirrels, cats, chipmonks, rabbits, and other critters they would normally chase in their yard. Also, I carry high value treats for when I see a potential distraction which they may get excited about. Put them in a sit and slowly feed them treats until distraction is gone. Or sometimes I walk past the distraction as I feed them treats. Remember, short leashes give you best control. If you get tense when you see a potential distraction, they will pick up on it and react. Good luck.
I agree. A prong collar might make him think twice about bolting, but if he wants to bolt he still will. More training is the best solution.
 

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Best combo: Training AND a pinch. With the goal of eventually weaning off the pinch and back onto a flat buckle once your LEAVE IT commands (or HEEL or SIT or anything else you're teaching w/the pinch) has become cemented.
 

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by the way in your training you can set up the situations that cause you the problems. Borrow a bird in a cage and practice heeling around it. Borrow a rabbit and practice with that. Borrow a duck and practice with that. In obedience we call this Proofing, and it teaches the dog that no matter what happens or is near by that they still must listen and obey commands.

Kelly and Amber
 

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People who uses ESL to criticize other peoples and their choices of training tools is not being nice.
 

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People who uses ESL to criticize other peoples and their choices of training tools is not being nice.
Ditto. And sure, you can accomplish training a dog on a flat collar if you only have one dog, go to training, and know a bit about dogs.

For this uncontrollable 105# male, I would recommend enrolling in obedience class and use a prong collar until some of the training has sunk into his head, then you can wean him off to a regular collar.

I would also make a point of training and walking each dog individually until they both learn better.
 

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The momentum that the dog builds up before it reaches the end of the leash is what is going to injure you. I haven't used a pinch collar, so I don't know if that will help or not. I have tried many different collars and harnessess, but Bauer would still go after a squirrel if it ran in front of him. It is much harder to regain control and focus with a dog that is 6 feet away at the end of a leash. I started looping the leash around the front of his chest, which gave me more control and didn't allow him to build up the momentum.

I use a regular leash and collar; connect the leash as normal, and grip the leash with my left hand about 18" from the collar, wrap the leash around the front of his chest, and bring the end of the leash up to my left hand. I can post a picture if you are interested or can't picture it.

Forcing him to stay close made it easier for him to respond to "Leave it" and treats. I don't do this anymore when we are on normal walks, and he heels nicely 95% of the time (even with distractions). I still loop the leash around him when we are on crowded sidewalks or in the vet's office. It makes it easier to keep him right next to me.
 

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People who uses a prong collar have a dog who suffers a lot of proper training ...

We never used such tool with all the dogs we've own


The above statement is not necessarily true and I would like you to meet some HIT dogs with OTCH that have used and sometimes due refer back to the prong collar on occasion. These dogs do and use prong collars. There are many well known professional trainers that also use and train with the prong....with exceptional success.

Dogs are NOT one size fits all and ANY training program or tools used should be geared towards the dog. The prong collar has helped to prevent a lot of injuries from people being dragged along by a high driving lab. I do not know the lab and situation so would not want to tell someone how to train an invisible dog until I've actually been with the dog to read the situation.

However, from what I can glean from the posting is that the dog has a very high prey drive and when a dog is locked on and in that mode it will take a lot to overide that. The dog will basically do whatever it can to get to where it wants to go and any correction will most likely get ignored unless you find something that will matter to the dog. For example distracting with treats or just stopping his momentum with a pinch collar. You have to be very careful with distracting with treats because if not done correctly you might inadvertently correct the dog for the wrong behavior not the one that you are trying to reinforce. From my experience a dog that is heavy into prey drive mode could care less about a treat they just want to close the distance on that rabbit, squirrel, cat,etc. This is where aversives (prong collar) come in handy in that if you use it properly the dog will react to it.... I don't like this ... being corrected so I'll try to avoid being correction next time.....the thing is the correction has to matter more then what he wants to get to...each time he pulls he is rewarding himself in a sense so it is positive for him.

I agree obedience training in this situation would be beneficial and also using a properly fitted prong collar could be highly effective. I would also only walk the dogs seperately so that you can give all your attention and focus that you need on one dog at a time....need both hands to work the prong collar correctly if the dog is pulling really hard. Labs have thick fleshy necks so the collar needs to be high and right behind the ears and should stay in that area of the neck should not slip around a lot.

Also don't be too quick to wean off a pinch collar. Have him wear flat and pinch so that you can clip him on the pinch collar at anytime to correct any really bad behavior i.e. pulling.....zero tolerance policy when it comes to pulling so that it just becomes habit and he knows that is what expected of him at all times. If he is too unpredictable even after training and proofing than by all means keep using the prong collar for life of the dog if need be ....there is NO SHAME in that. A safe handler and dog is the best thing that the prong can provide....I'd hate for you to get injured or for him to get away and hit by a car...it would be too late to look back and say IF only I had his prong collar on him.....

Do seek some professional advice....
 
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