[Tanya]

I have debated posting this question or not. But it is something I have been thinking about and wondering what the thought on the topic is.

On all the boards there are a variety of things we should look for when choosing a breeder (clearances, proven dogs, litters raised indoors, screening buyers...).

What about those who have kennel dogs? I mean the very nice kennels, heated/cooled and cleaned usually because the breeder has many dogs (15+). Or maybe that is another question in itself, the number of dogs a breeder has.

Some of the more "popular" breeders seem to have lots of dogs and kennel them. Some will rotate a few in the house, and litters are raised indoors as well, but the dogs will always spend some time in the kennel.

At the same time, I have friends who have 8-10 dogs and all are loved and properly cared for, but with 15+ how does one get to really know that many dogs?

Is this good practice? Does it boil down to personal preference on the buyers part?

I do not want to start a controversy or finger pointing. I am not saying the dogs are not cared, just looking for more insight on this topic I know NOTHING about.

 

[joflake]

I think this is an excellent question and I'm looking forward to the opinions from the breeders here. I got Libby from a "kennel". Keep in mind I knew nothing about buying a puppy, just happened across these people. The husband did field trials with his dogs and had five Grand Champions on the premises. He even spent some time with me showing me how he worked Libby's sire. The wife took care of the litters, which were in the house with her. I got to see both parents. They had all their clearances, health certs, etc. After joining JL and reading things here, I thought this was a good breeder, even though they had lots of dogs. I also have to add that a lot of their dogs are trained as service dogs. I've heard other people refer to them as a puppy mill. What do you think?

 

[lisa]

I have debated posting this question or not. But it is something I have been thinking about and wondering what the thought on the topic is.

On all the boards there are a variety of things we should look for when choosing a breeder (clearances, proven dogs, litters raised indoors, screening buyers...).

What about those who have kennel dogs? I mean the very nice kennels, heated/cooled and cleaned usually because the breeder has many dogs (15+). Or maybe that is another question in itself, the number of dogs a breeder has.

Some of the more "popular" breeders seem to have lots of dogs and kennel them. Some will rotate a few in the house, and litters are raised indoors as well, but the dogs will always spend some time in the kennel.

At the same time, I have friends who have 8-10 dogs and all are loved and properly cared for, but with 15+ how does one get to really know that many dogs?

Is this good practice? Does it boil down to personal preference on the buyers part?

I do not want to start a controversy or finger pointing. I am not saying the dogs are not cared, just looking for more insight on this topic I know NOTHING about.

I love this question too. I can't wait to see the responses because this is something I do not know anything about myself.

 

[labby]

Are the dogs happy? Are they well cared for?

While I don't keep my dogs in kennels, I don't automatically condemn those that do. Some people keep more dogs than others. I have six and do I know them all as well as someone who only has one or two? Prolly not.

 

[Luvmydog2much]

Same as Laura here. You have to be comfortable with how your own dogs live.

I don't necessarily condemn those who have big numbers, but I've asked some breeders how well they know their own dogs temperaments etc. There's only so much you can know about dogs that live outside. I know others who rotate dogs in the house/kennel etc.

I know a breeder who has 4 dogs and they live in crates in the basement. So I wouldn't say its an individual thing, I certainly wouldn't condone some of the lives that other breeders dogs have, and I'd live to live in some of their paws for a day.

Mine live in the house. I know every single thing about them. But for some, its overkill.

 

[Tanya]

thanks Laura and Melissa. Like I said I just wanted more info, I realise there are those with 1-2 dogs who are less loved/cared for.

Guess it boils down to asking questions and going with what you are comfortable with - and yes, that the dogs are happy and cared for

 

[r6d]

What I worry about is the breeders may not be able to tell whether or not their dogs have the mellow temperament we buyers are looking for. If mom and dad are kenneled, how would you tell if they would ever settle down in a household and be decent doggy citizens? The lab puppy I have now is turning out to be a good dog, but, I really have to work with her, the crate training, housebreaking (ongoing project), manners, obedience, etc. I set her up for success with consistent training and exercise. I believe I know more than a lot of buyers, and if I had a rough time, I hate to think what they would have had. Yet, this breeder thinks her dogs have the best temperament ever.

 

[Luvmydog2much]

I can say that I bought Rhys from a kennel situation. He is bomb proof. Not a thing rattles him, his temperament is unflappable. But that makes him very difficult to live with. I don't know what his parent's temperaments were like, but I'm sure they're nutso too, and I wouldn't say that that's due to them living in a kennel

 

[HersheyK's Dad]

I am not a breeder, and never will be. Have only had one dog at a time, excluding some doggie sitting for the kids' dogs.

HK came from one of these kennel situations. I supposed reading through the thread, (I have previously stated that I know thought the place where I got HK was a small scale puppy mill.) I may have to change my thinking. Maybe it isn't a puppy mill. But I know this much. I don't think of dogs as livestock. I think of them as my companion. A member of my family. Had I known before what I know now, I would only buy a puppy from a breeder that felt the same way and raised the dogs inside the home. i won't condemn the others, but I am becoming more aware of my feelings on the subject. I also know that HK is probably the last dog I get as a puppy, my age being the major factor. If I am here and able when Hershey Kisses passes on, I will find a shelter dog, hopefully a senior, that I can provide a home for and some happiness for both of us. I hope that day is a long long time away from now, but that is my plan.I guess I will be getting a kennel dog.

 

[labby]

As Tanya stated, most dogs get rotated in the house so their owners know their personalities.

 

[BigBrownDog]

The breeder Blaise came from had 10 dogs at any given time in her little ranch house so some of them rotated in and out of her kennel. I think she knows her dogs temperaments and personalities quite well.

I'll admit, it was not exactly what I expected - but I certainly do understand the need and rationale.

 

[cinderbay]

This is where my Gryphon came from and how he was raised
http://shadowmystlabs.com/puppies.htm
I picked him up at 9.5 weeks old and he was the most social and well adjusted little stinkers! He is a sweet dog who is a hug lovable teddy bear.
I have no problem with how he was raised or that his breeder has kennel dogs. She does a great job and recommend her to anyone!

I would not hesitate again as long as I trusted the breeder and they came highly recommended. Someone like Gryph's breeder is not just breeding for show or to produce pups. She works her dogs as well.Now there are some breeders that I am not sure how they can manage kennels of 30+ dogs and YES there are some.

 

[joflake]

I am not a breeder, and never will be. Have only had one dog at a time, excluding some doggie sitting for the kids' dogs.

HK came from one of these kennel situations. I supposed reading through the thread, (I have previously stated that I know thought the place where I got HK was a small scale puppy mill.) I may have to change my thinking. Maybe it isn't a puppy mill. But I know this much. I don't think of dogs as livestock. I think of them as my companion. A member of my family. Had I known before what I know now, I would only buy a puppy from a breeder that felt the same way and raised the dogs inside the home. i won't condemn the others, but I am becoming more aware of my feelings on the subject. I also know that HK is probably the last dog I get as a puppy, my age being the major factor. If I am here and able when Hershey Kisses passes on, I will find a shelter dog, hopefully a senior, that I can provide a home for and some happiness for both of us. I hope that day is a long long time away from now, but that is my plan.I guess I will be getting a kennel dog.

I'm with you on this one Ed. I think I lucked out with Libby, but I will not be buying another puppy. I've been trying to spend more time at the shelters. It is so sad how many dogs wind up there. I got Willy from a rescue and I know that is where my future dogs will come from. Maybe I'll luck on to a puppy, but my heart is starting to go with the seniors now. Nobody wants them, and it breaks my heart. Everytime I think I want to buy a puppy, I'm going to make a trip to the shelter.

 

[jebsmama]

We got Jeb and Hampton from the same breeder. She has 15 adult dogs. They are all very friendly, well-behaved dogs. Jeb has been a handful (stron-willed) but his disposition is why we wanted a pup from the same breeding. He is not flustered by anything, very friendly and outgoing. When we picked Hampton up she was walking her geriatric group (all are 9+ years old). It was quite a sight. It is obvious she loves her dogs. It boils down to seeing well-adjusted animals.

 

[Sandy himalayas]

I guess in kennels its a business dogs mean puppies n puppies money.......in my earlier long time post i said about my visit to sood farm from where i got my baby golden lab, two people were holding a female dog n male dog on top.....they wanted money....i dont mean to say it will b everywhere however my personal experience what i saw in that particular place...........sad.....but true

 

[Tanya]

I guess in kennels its a business dogs mean puppies n puppies money.......in my earlier long time post i said about my visit to sood farm from where i got my baby golden lab, two people were holding a female dog n male dog on top.....they wanted money....i dont mean to say it will b everywhere however my personal experience what i saw in that particular place...........sad.....but true

This is NOT the type of situation I am talking about, as I specified in my post I am talking happy well cared for dogs that live in a clean and large kennel and who are proven (hunt/conformation/field/obedience/etc) and get all the appropriate genetic testing.

 

[nicole]

As others have said, it depends

I have 7 labs and indoor/outdoor kennels. My dogs sleep in the house (in my bedroom or crated in "dog room"), but are outside during the day. I don't work, so I'm home a heck of a lot playing with them, training them, rotating groups, etc. I take 2-3 to the park to walk trails/swim most days and am often at the agility building with a couple in the evenings. Every night, they all hang out in the living room with me while I watch tv or play online. I can honestly say I know each of my dogs as well as someone who just has one or two.

 

[Briarwood]

Hmmmm...was not going to bother to reply to this...but...

I do have 15 plus dogs at any given time...including my two oldies who are permanently in the house. I do have a kennel building with indoor/outdoor runs and fenced excercise yard and my entire acreage is fenced. My dogs do rotate in the house and usually have 6 inside with me any given evening. They are a part of my family and I do know each of them. I spend alot of time with them not only showing but my free time is spent going for walks and swimming in the pond.

My puppies are born in the house...they are well socialized. I take great care in screening my puppy buyers to try to match personalities appropriately. I take young dogs to class weekly for socialization and ring training...I travel an hour each way. Where we live, the house we live in, the kind of cars we drive...these were all decisions made around this hobby and our dogs. I work outside the home to support this hobby...my time at home is spent with my dogs. I work very hard...I do not sit and watch tv or spend hours on the computer. I spend it with my dogs. Our vacation times are planned around dog shows and litters. This is much more than a hobby to me and certainly not a way to make money. Do you have any idea how much time, money and energy reputable breeders spend on this?? Do you realize how much heartbreak we experience? Really makes you question sanity at times...let me tell you.

I DO NOT think of my dogs as livestock. However, I do appreciate them as DOGS and even moreso as Labradors. What a unique and wonderful breed they are. Not every dog I run on here is a fit...I know their personalities and I know what works in my pack. I will on occassion place older puppies or adults in family homes and these dogs are well socialized, housebroken and generally know basic obedience. I know their personalities and I look for a suitable match accordingly. Some dogs need a job to do some would rather just hang out with their people.

I know my personal limits for my numbers here and I think that is the key for anyone...we all have different priorities and limits. My best advise is to not judge that which you do not know first hand. It is a slippery slope...be careful not to label...as I am sure you would not like me to label you.

Reputable breeders should think of themselves as stewards of this wonderful breed. There are many of us that spend long hours trying to educate the general public, BYB's and puppy millers...and continue to put up a front against anti-breeder legislation and A/R extremists. It is not always a black/white or Right/Wrong position we are in...there are many gray areas.

My wish for the New Year is that each of us try to be a little less assuming and a little more tolerant of each other as individuals. I think we could all learn a little something from our Labradors.

Stacey Sellers
Briarwood Labradors
www.briarwoodlabrador.homestead.com

 

[Luvmydog2much]

I didn`t see this thread as judgmental at all.

 

[Briarwood]

Really?? I was just trying to answer Tonya's questions...while also answering some of the other poster's off handed comments. I was trying to show another perspective which is what I thought Tonya wanted.

I did not say it was judgemental. I was suggesting that we all need to be open our minds a bit more. Guess that message was lost?

Stacey Sellers
Briarwood Labradors
www.briarwoodlabrador.homestead.com