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VIDEO

Saw this last night on TV. The whole time they are going through their blah, blah, blah, I was thinking - should have done this years ago. The Japanese were/are way ahead of you guys.
 

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I just talked to a library in TN and she said "since GM pulled that stunt with Spring Hill I have to cut $50,000". I told her I know how she feels we are in Michigan. She didn't care.
 

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I'm not a fan of GM but to say that the Japanese were/are way ahead of them just isn't a fair statement. The Japanese built new factories in right to work states rather than trying to retool factories that are 60 years old in places like Michigan. They don't have the union agreements and the costs associated with 75 years worth of retirees.

Sure Toyota makes a bunch of small cars, so does GM. What interests me is that Toyota also makes a huge pick-up and several pretty large SUV's. GM makes a big truck and people point to it as the reason they are in the toilet, Toyota builds the Tundra and everybody talks about how quickly they respond to the marketplace.
 

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BAH!!!! "The only chapter we care about right now is chapter one."

ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!?! You **** well better care about where you are GM - because it's our money that's keeping you afloat. Asshats.

Yes, Toyota does make some big cars, but look at what Toyota marketed the last few years versus what GM, Ford, etc. marketed. Even when gas was $4/gal Ford was pushing trucks, same with Chevy - like a rock (is that the cars, or the company sinking?) - while other companies were bumping up the adverts on their smaller cars and more fuel efficient vehicles Ford and Chevy were whipping out the "our truck holds more boulders than your truck" commercials.

The Prius sells very well, as does the Hybrid Civic, have US automakers built anything comparable to either of those until this year? If they have I haven't seen much marketing for it. The only small US car I ever see advertised is the Ford Focus. And 90% of the hybrid cars built by US automakers are hybrid SUVs (Mercury Mariner, Ford Escape, etc.) with mediocre fuel efficiency and safety. (I'm not even going to touch the reliability issue.)

I have a really hard time jumping on the "Yay GM! Go American cars!" bandwagon, despite their flashy commercial. Granted, now that it's our money they're playing with in their "reinvention" we all have a vested interested in how they do :rolleyes:
 

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And as soon as gas prices dropped, truck and SUV sales jumped and my local prius dealer is advertising 1.9 interest rates because people only want them when gas is $4 a gallon. A year ago there was a six month waiting list for a prius; now you can walk in and take your pick.

Those big trucks have been the best selling vehicles in this country for decades; the F-150 dominates, you're going to tell Ford they shouldn't advertise it? It sells like crazy even when the economy sucks.

I'm not arguing they have the perfect marketing strategy; I'm arguing that for the most part they are held back by things other than the quality and type of car they make.
 

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Please tell me how I can pull a boat or an RV with a Prius or a Civic? Keep buying foreign cars and see what happens. We are pushing manufacturing out of the US. I can't stand to drive a little car.
 

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Please tell me how I can pull a boat or an RV with a Prius or a Civic? Keep buying foreign cars and see what happens. We are pushing manufacturing out of the US. I can't stand to drive a little car.

Same with me, I can't afford two vehicles for me and my hobby requires a pick-up to haul my gear. And decent simple pick-ups like mine are hard to find used and don't exist used. The put to much glitter on them and don't make the egine anymore. got a 90 F-150 that gets near 20 mph in town and close to 25 on the highway, but that's the old 300CID in-line six cylinder with a 5 speed..
 

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Please tell me how I can pull a boat or an RV with a Prius or a Civic? Keep buying foreign cars and see what happens. We are pushing manufacturing out of the US. I can't stand to drive a little car.
I'm with you, even my "little car" is a 6 cyl. Jeep Wrangler that only gets 17 mpg!! But I love it- just hope I'm able to get another one when its time for a replacement;)
 

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Please tell me how I can pull a boat or an RV with a Prius or a Civic? Keep buying foreign cars and see what happens. We are pushing manufacturing out of the US. I can't stand to drive a little car.
It's actually pushing manufacturing jobs to other states. Toyota's Georgetown, KY and Princeton, IN plants have recently added capacity. I'm not against supporting domestic auto companies, I drive a GM truck. If I were to buy another truck, it would definitely be from either Ford or GM. My next vehicle will be a car, though, since I don't need a truck anymore. Where it's made will probably have some impact on my decision, so I'll probably go with the Camry, made right here in Kentucky.
 

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It's actually pushing manufacturing jobs to other states. Toyota's Georgetown, KY and Princeton, IN plants have recently added capacity. I'm not against supporting domestic auto companies, I drive a GM truck. If I were to buy another truck, it would definitely be from either Ford or GM. My next vehicle will be a car, though, since I don't need a truck anymore. Where it's made will probably have some impact on my decision, so I'll probably go with the Camry, made right here in Kentucky.
Nick, my warped mind wants to know if they now haul 'shine out there in Toyota's.:D They now go fast, handle well.:D
 

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Please tell me how I can pull a boat or an RV with a Prius or a Civic?
I'm not saying you need to buy a Prius or Civic, I am saying there was a waiting list (?!?!) for small, fuel efficient cars back when the Prius was first introduced - clearly public demand was high for those and GM et al. failed (imo) to keep up with the competition.

I'm not saying they shouldn't make trucks (although I think a shift in advertising would've been smart when gas was high). They are clearly lacking smaller cars to compete with the Civics, Prius, Camry, etc. of the car world. If you want a midrange, small 4 door car what are you going to get that GM or Ford makes?

Ford Focus? Chevy Malibu? Saturn Aura? Pontiac G8? Compare the appeal and public opinion/knowledge of those to a Civic, Accord, Camry, Subaru Impreza.

Americans seem to buy American trucks/SUVs, and Foreign cars. GM/Ford should make a better effort to compete on that front - so that when gas prices shoot back up and public opinion sways back to smaller cars they aren't left high and dry with market shares drying up (again).

Keep buying foreign cars and see what happens.
I fully plan to :) Unless US automakers create a safe, reliable, attractive, small car that includes features I want without an outrageous price tag.
 

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It's not about Domestic versus foreign. It's about the business of building cars. the big domestic automakers were OK with paying workers 65-80 K a year plus retirements for a job you can learn to do in 4 weeks. This is pure insanity. You have to take a good long hard look at what a job is worth in terms of salary and bennies. If foreign owned car makers are able to produce nice cars without the UAW wages, where was the surprize in all of this. How the hell can you compete with higher labor costs? You can't. The unions knew this, the shareholders knew this, everyone knew this.


I would like to find the genius who assembled the glove compartment door on my Ford. One bump and the ******* pops open. He/she made a very comfortable union negotiated living out of crappy glove compartment doors

There are millions of American workers who would be willing to assemble cars for a reasonable salary and benefit package. The UAW and it's kind kept milking every **** penny they could get, knowing that this day would come. The day is here and if the domestic automakers fail. Screw em. I hope the thousands of people they employed saved a little of that salary for a rainy day. Especially the A hole that put my Ford together.
 

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I know about those glove box latches, this one wasn't the assemblers fault, that one comes from the engineers who saved a few cents on it, they bought the springs from a ball point pen factory.;)

Got one on my 90 Ford.

Used to see a lot of shoddy assembling years ago when I was a body man, I'm talking 70's and 80's on this, worst one was Fiat.:rolleyes: Did a lot of warrenty work in a GM dealership in the early 80's, most flustrating job I ever had.

Hope they got their act together now, if not, Chysler is doomed.
 

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I know about those glove box latches, this one wasn't the assemblers fault, that one comes from the engineers who saved a few cents on it, they bought the springs from a ball point pen factory.;)

Got one on my 90 Ford.

Used to see a lot of shoddy assembling years ago when I was a body man, I'm talking 70's and 80's on this, worst one was Fiat.:rolleyes: Did a lot of warrenty work in a GM dealership in the early 80's, most flustrating job I ever had.

Hope they got their act together now, if not, Chysler is doomed.
I've owned Domestic cars and trucks all my life until 2007. For 32 years I bought Ford and GM. In 2007 I bought the Nissan Xterra and still have my Ford. I won't be able to form an opinion on the Nissan for a couple of more years. It's still under 50K on the ODO.

Engineers (which I are one) have to have their designs pass stringent testing.

Purchasing then takes the design and finds the lowest bidder to build or supply the parts.

QA then inspects the first article and if it passes, the parts move on to the assembly line.

If one latch can work on one glove box then theoretically it can work on all.

Of the three principle groups involved the assembler gets the lions share of wages and the costs associated. engineering, QA and purchasing generally are not part of the collective bargaining unit and as surprizing as it may sound, often do not earn what the assembler does.

Engineers,purrchasing and QA would love to have better more robust designs and parts. Unfortunately the only money that can be saved is in the parts itself since the union wages are untouchable. Non union salaries and benefits are cut all the time in business. It is very very rare that collective bargaining units give up anything.

In order for businesses to be competitive globally there has to be a fair amount of flexibility during tough times. In hindsight I'm willing to bet that the Union workers who are now jobless, might have voted for a decrease in salary in order to to keep the doors open. Well maybe not today but when the Unemploment checks run out and the only skill/education they have to offer a new employer is ....................

I would like nothing more that to see a resurgence of manufacturing in the US. But. without the collective bargaining units. I was union at one time. Union workers who weren't worth a sh_t got paid the same as top quality workers. That is fundamentally wrong. It stiffles individual acheivement and growth which is the backbone of success.
 

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It's not about Domestic versus foreign. It's about the business of building cars. the big domestic automakers were OK with paying workers 65-80 K a year plus retirements for a job you can learn to do in 4 weeks. This is pure insanity. You have to take a good long hard look at what a job is worth in terms of salary and bennies. If foreign owned car makers are able to produce nice cars without the UAW wages, where was the surprize in all of this. How the hell can you compete with higher labor costs? You can't. The unions knew this, the shareholders knew this, everyone knew this.
I totally agree with this. The a-hole that lives next door works on the line at Ford. Knowing him will make me not want to buy a Ford. What a dumb ass!Thankfully they are moving this weekend!
 

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oh please...the #1 selling model in the US last year was the F-150 truck.....Silverado was in the top ten.

There is a reason they make ad's for those models.

Most of this is just the do-gooders pushing agenda. Nothing new there except now .......

the Government is involved.

For the good of everyone.

(I know those two lines don't go together.....LOL)
 

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oh please...the #1 selling model in the US last year was the F-150 truck.....Silverado was in the top ten.
If you read the other columns in the chart:

The F150 lost 18.7% of its sales from the year prior, the Silverado dropped 25.9%, the Dodge Ram dropped 26%.

The small cars like Camry (#2) rose 2%, Civic rose 20%, Altima rose 16%, Ford Focus rose 35%.

So yes, trucks still sell, but they aren't selling at rates they used to, and small cars are jumping up the list. The first US-made small car on that list is the Chevy Impala, which managed to drop in sales 15% (and rank one spot to number 8).

It's very telling, imo, that the Focus rose so much and it was the one small US car I can remember being agressively marketed last year (re: commercials where the driver is talking to the car "Play: Green Day" etc.).

The whole list:
RANK VEHICLE 2008 2007 '07 RANK %Chng
1 Ford F-Series P/U 235,924 290,282 1 -18.7
2 Toyota Camry 198,309 193,900 3 +2.3
3 Chevy Silverado-C/K P/U 197,030 265,941 2 -25.9
4 Honda Accord 166,158 153,431 6 +8.3
5 Honda Civic 164,994 137,288 8 +20.2
6 Toyota Corolla 152,308 165,722 4 -8.1
7 Nissan Altima 133,465 114,318 9 +16.7
8 Chevrolet Impala 122,281 144,541 7 -15.4
9 Dodge Ram P/U 112,795 154,143 5 -26.8
10 Ford Focus 105,499 77,732 15 +35.7
11 Chevrolet Cobalt 93,362 79,257 14 +17.8
12 Honda CR-V 89,017 84,464 11 +5.4
13 Toyota Prius 79,675 76,747 16 +3.8
14 Ford Escape 76,966 73,058 17 +5.3
15 Chevrolet Malibu 74,925 59,627 26 +25.7
16 Ford Fusion 73,197 66,260 20 +10.5
17 GM Pontiac G6 71,062 59,063 28 +20.3
18 GMC Sierra P/U 70,765 84,106 12 -15.9
19 Toyota Tundra 66,278 61,113 23 +8.5
20 Ford Econoline/Club Wagon 63,869 80,641 13 -20.8

Just a do-gooder, pushing an agenda.
 

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If you read the other columns in the chart:

The F150 lost 18.7% of its sales from the year prior, the Silverado dropped 25.9%, the Dodge Ram dropped 26%.

The small cars like Camry (#2) rose 2%, Civic rose 20%, Altima rose 16%, Ford Focus rose 35%.

So yes, trucks still sell, but they aren't selling at rates they used to, and small cars are jumping up the list. The first US-made small car on that list is the Chevy Impala, which managed to drop in sales 15% (and rank one spot to number 8).

It's very telling, imo, that the Focus rose so much and it was the one small US car I can remember being agressively marketed last year (re: commercials where the driver is talking to the car "Play: Green Day" etc.).

The whole list:
RANK VEHICLE 2008 2007 '07 RANK %Chng
1 Ford F-Series P/U 235,924 290,282 1 -18.7
2 Toyota Camry 198,309 193,900 3 +2.3
3 Chevy Silverado-C/K P/U 197,030 265,941 2 -25.9
4 Honda Accord 166,158 153,431 6 +8.3
5 Honda Civic 164,994 137,288 8 +20.2
6 Toyota Corolla 152,308 165,722 4 -8.1
7 Nissan Altima 133,465 114,318 9 +16.7
8 Chevrolet Impala 122,281 144,541 7 -15.4
9 Dodge Ram P/U 112,795 154,143 5 -26.8
10 Ford Focus 105,499 77,732 15 +35.7
11 Chevrolet Cobalt 93,362 79,257 14 +17.8
12 Honda CR-V 89,017 84,464 11 +5.4
13 Toyota Prius 79,675 76,747 16 +3.8
14 Ford Escape 76,966 73,058 17 +5.3
15 Chevrolet Malibu 74,925 59,627 26 +25.7
16 Ford Fusion 73,197 66,260 20 +10.5
17 GM Pontiac G6 71,062 59,063 28 +20.3
18 GMC Sierra P/U 70,765 84,106 12 -15.9
19 Toyota Tundra 66,278 61,113 23 +8.5
20 Ford Econoline/Club Wagon 63,869 80,641 13 -20.8

Just a do-gooder, pushing an agenda.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say about the marketing. You mention that they should not be marketing the trucks......which are still their best sellers even if thay sold less last year.

but then you also mention that the focus was aggressively marketed and that was a success.


If a company is doing things wrong and their sales drop......that's capitalism.

The government propping them up and deciding which models they should build is wrong IMO.

Very wrong.

The government.....under any of the recent or current administration is corrupt and inept at everything else they do.....and now they can make decisions about how a car company should run?

That's crazy.

If people want to drive small cars then let the market dictate and companies react accordingly.
 

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If a company is doing things wrong and their sales drop......that's capitalism.

The government propping them up and deciding which models they should build is wrong IMO.

Very wrong.

The government.....under any of the recent or current administration is corrupt and inept at everything else they do.....and now they can make decisions about how a car company should run?

That's crazy.

If people want to drive small cars then let the market dictate and companies react accordingly.
I think we agree more than we disagree, as I'm NOT in favor of the government giving GM or Ford ANY money.

I don't understand why the thought process didn't go: Hmm, we're still selling lots of trucks, but not as many as prior years. --> Consumers are buying more small cars. --> We're selling fewer cars/trucks overall. --> Let's try to get our small cars noticed.

Why not invest something into trying to grab that growing small car market rather than letting Toyota and Honda jump all over it? Better yet, why were they content to sit back YEARS ago when there were waiting lists for small fuel-efficient cars?

As others have pointed out, the union wages, etc. were most likely a much bigger part of the financial demise than marketing - however, commercials are something that's very visible that made me angry. It just looks like poor management to me - and GM saying they're only focused on Chapter One really steams me.
 
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