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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Kelly (Amber the Duck Dawg)'s post brings up a question I have been meaning to ask. And please, I don't want to get into color things here, let's stick with normal "byb/mill" dogs.

I ran into people at a dog show who were obviously not "dog People" they said they wanted a lab just like mine and asked me where I got her, I explained to them that mine was NOT a correct lab and pointed out all the things that were not right, and also told them that she was from a puppymill. They still insisted that they wanted one just like her and really pressed me on where she came from and were quite upset that I wouldn't tell them. I did however suggest if they wanted a lab like mine that the pound is in fact full of them. Doing the right thing is often hard.

Kelly and Amber
Rocky is a rescue. I love him, wouldn't change a thing about him. But he's completely and totally off standard in so many ways. I get ALOT of comments from people about how great he looks "for a lab" and how they want one just like him. So I find myself in an awkward situation. Yes he is "purebred" but I don't want people to start LOOKING for a Labrador bred to look lie Rocky or wore, people to start thinking a healthy lab "should" look anything like him

I used to get into the whole "byb" thing as Kelly describes above, but then people either still wanted a lab just like him or thought I was crazy mean for thinking my dog is ugly (and I don't!). But lately...i just started saying he is a mix, this way people can't start thinking labs should look like him ;)

What would you say?

I can certainly tell a byb when people stop me to ask if he is neutered cuz their gal is about to come into heat! LOL
 

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Funny thing Tanya, everyone knows what breed Rhys is right away, he's 26" tall, 65lbs.

Ruby and Gin, never get the same feedback he gets.

I usually tell people they can find Labradors like him at the shelter or pound, or tell them about the local rescue. And then I describe Rhys' temperament. If they are looking for a dog bred for temperament, to look at my girls and I can help them with that.
 

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I get asked what Jakey is. Not sure if it's his head that thows them off or his tail. ;) Seamus gets called a Golden Retriever due to his color.
 

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Diesel is also very tall. People do usually think he is a Lab - but some do ask. He's a handsome boy, but is far from correct in conformation. I am sure that when Blaise is mature there will be some interesting comparisons! (Blaise being a very nice Casbar/Hyspire puppy)

As Diesel was a rescue, I really don't know anything about his history - there is apparently a big field breeder in South Jersey - and a trainer thought he might be from them - but who the heck knows? He could have as easily been from the pet shop in Paramus Park.

I had someone recently ask me about breeders as they were looking for a Lab puppy - I did my usual and talked about puppy mills, BYB and gave them a list of breeders in the NJ/NY area to check out. And as important - I talk about the clearances to look for and age that the puppy should stay with the litter until. Once informed they may or may not listen. At times I feel like a zealot!
 

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With Sally's white splash on her chest, I get told all the time that she's not 100% purebred lab. :rolleyes: When I assure them that she is....that a white spot is perfectly ok, then the next question is where did I get her and how much did she cost and that they are looking for a lab.

When they hear what she cost, it's always like, "Oh my, that's way more than I wanted to spend. I'm looking for a dog for around $200-$300."

Then I always go into my "then you need to look for a rescue" routine and tell them what great dogs are at rescues. I always get the feeling that they will never consider rescue or the pound....they have that "look in the paper" or "get one in the WalMart parking lot" mentality. That's all they know and it's what they are comfortable with.

It's very disconcerting to me.
 

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I know this doesn't answer your question of what to tell people who admire your BYB or store-bought puppy and want to get one "just like it", but apparently we all like to tell the story of our own dogs ;) I get asked all the time what Skippy is - I tell them that he is a "labrahound" (cuz he looks like a hound/lab mix) and then say somewhat apologetically "he's a purebred lab". The important thing with a male dog that is not "breed worthy" is to make sure that YOU have them "fixed". That way when people ask if they can breed their female to your male, you can say quickly and nicely "oh no - he's not of breeding quality and thats the end of it, because , well, there's no way your dog can be bred. I also get asked what Emilu is (she really looks just like a lab - no question about that -except to people who only see BYB dogs), I just say "she's a lab - she's bred on conformation lines - or "show lines" something like that. If I'm feeling fancey, I say "she's a show dog!" (no need to mention its obedience ;) )
 

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I just mentioned this in the other thread, but I tell people I adopted Peanut from a shelter. I tell them I got Baloo from a "breeder up north", and no one has yet asked for any more details than that. Maybe because the only people who ask are the ones at the park and they are witnessing his wildman act. :D

I know of at least three people who have adopted dogs from shelters because I told them that I adopted Peanut. Mostly just because they didn't realize that small dogs sometimes end up in shelters too, they thought it was all large dogs.

I feel like it's my penance that I must pay for buying Peanut from a pet store. There were four in her litter, I have to facilitate the adoption of at least one more homeless dog before I really feel like I've redeemed myself, as silly as that may sound. Maybe two more for her parents, as well. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Kate - That's good to hear. People seem to think all rescue/pound dogs are terrible and misbehaved with lots of issues. WHen they meet Rocky, who is as mellow and loving as you get (his temperament is expectational) they cannot BELIEVE he is a rescue. I don't skip a beat when discussion goes that route and say that there are plenty of great dogs from families that just no longer had time for them in shelters and rescues, not only problem dogs

I know this doesn't answer your question of what to tell people who admire your BYB or store-bought puppy and want to get one "just like it", but apparently we all like to tell the story of our own dogs ;) I get asked all the time what Skippy is - I tell them that he is a "labrahound" (cuz he looks like a hound/lab mix) and then say somewhat apologetically "he's a purebred lab".
LOL Rocky is alot like Skippy - has that hound look so I do get labrador/hound mix sometimes ;)
 

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I understand the pupp mills now.Could someone explain to me the issues with the Petstores bought dogs?I could do a search and find out myself but why do that if I have you guys/gals to tell me:D
 

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The quick and easy answer, if you really understand puppy mills, is that ALL puppies bought in a petstore come from puppy mills. No reputable breeder would EVER sell their pups to a petstore.
 

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The quick and easy answer, if you really understand puppy mills, is that ALL puppies bought in a petstore come from puppy mills. No reputable breeder would EVER sell their pups to a petstore.
In addition, those weeks the pups are in the pet store (let's just guess 6 weeks and up) are really important for "learning." Pups need to be safely exposed to new things (being outside, walking on different surfaces, different noises, etc.). They don't get that sitting in a cage watching the world go by - which can sometimes make them harder to live with as adults.
 

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Tanya, since you got Rocky from my rescue, I can say with 100% he was the epitomy of what a "steiner" lab was in this area before we shut them down. He looks like so many labs in this area that were bred to stiener dogs. Rider's grandsire is Drakes sire...if you get my drift.

I get lots of questions when I'm out with both of my boys. Rookie's always the "mix". LOL. I love Rider...even in all of his BYBness, but certainly not a Lab that fits the standard. Being in rescue, it's certainly easier to educate than someone talking at you in a petstore.

IF they ask, I tell them..."you wouldn't want to go to the same breeder I did for Rider" and proceed to talk to them about Huron River, other breeders, and rescue alike.
 

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In addition, those weeks the pups are in the pet store (let's just guess 6 weeks and up) are really important for "learning." Pups need to be safely exposed to new things (being outside, walking on different surfaces, different noises, etc.). They don't get that sitting in a cage watching the world go by - which can sometimes make them harder to live with as adults.

In addition to the above - dogs used for breeding in puppy mills are kept in deplorable, filthy conditions, bred on every cycle and bred without concern for temperament, genetic problems or their conformation to their breed standard. They suffer terribly.

Usually millers have numerous breeds in one kennel and cannot possibly be expert and promoting excellence in any of them.

The puppies are removed from their litters at an early age and shipped in trucks - crates stacked on top of each other. This has got to be mighty traumatic. If any of the puppies are sick - the chance of them all being infected us extremely high. They are treated like livestock by the breeders and the retailers that ultimately take delivery of them - like a product.

Puppies removed from litters early often have excessive mouthiness - this is directly related to early removal. Behavior can be influenced by negative/traumatic experiences in the tender early weeks - will aggressiveness, sharpness or shyness result from such rough handling and absence of human interaction while still in the litter?

I have a friend who worked at a vet practice who had a contract with a pet store in a mall. They would care for the sick puppies - and had more parvo cases than you would even believe. The store would simply remove the sick puppy - and sell the other ones who had all been exposed to unsuspecting uninformed people. I don't set foot in pet shops that sell puppies.

When you buy a puppy (ideally) you want it to be from superior breeding stock where the parents have been genetically screened, have exceptional temperaments and conform to the standards of their breed. This is for a pet dog - not a show dog. You are adding a member to your family and you want it to be healthy and safe. This is a 10 -15 year committment. People who buy in pet stores very often do it on impulse not thinking through or being aware of all of the above.
 

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When anyone asks me about the boys, I proudly tell them that they both came from rescues. I am also happy to explain how many wonderful, purebred Labs end up in rescues and shelters for many different reasons.
 

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Well you don't want my opinion because I happen to prefer to look of field labs over bench labs. Except for the ones that are moderate, i.e. Laura's, Kim's, Greg's; a few others. The ones with the huge heads and squatty bodies are not appealing to me. Just because a dog came from a shelter or doesn't look like a bench lab doesn't mean it came from a puppy mill. There are a lot of reputable field breeders out there and if I were not probably always going to have a rescue, that is where I would go for a pup.
 

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Actually, most puppies are shipped to pet shops at about 5 weeks at the latest. I worked in one years and years ago. 6 weeks is when puppies are at their cutest, according to the shop I worked for, so they wanted them in the cages then. They want the puppies sold by 8-9 weeks when they hit their first growth period.
 

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And back to the original question, I had a BYB Lab. My first one, more years ago than I want to admit. ;)

She was the "pick of the litter" at $50. Boy did I get a bargain for the pick of the litter. *insert sarcasm* It cost me more than $7000 to keep her alive in her almost 14 years of life. She was a mess physically and temperamentally and developed epilepsy when she was about 3-4. The meds kept me poor.

Since then, I've devoted my life to educate people on the Internet. That someone doesn't bother to do their homework in this day and age, both angers and saddens me.
 

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And back to the original question, I had a BYB Lab. My first one, more years ago than I want to admit. ;)

She was the "pick of the litter" at $50. Boy did I get a bargain for the pick of the litter. *insert sarcasm* It cost me more than $7000 to keep her alive in her almost 14 years of life. She was a mess physically and temperamentally and developed epilepsy when she was about 3-4. The meds kept me poor.

Since then, I've devoted my life to educate people on the Internet. That someone doesn't bother to do their homework in this day and age, both angers and saddens me.
not to be confrontational or argumentative, but are there exceptions to the rule? I have to admit that Zoe, Anela, Lady & Tasha are from either oopsie litters or BYB (not puppy mills), and they all seem fine.

Hayley and Joy are from pro breeders: both have hip/allergy issues.

are we (Zoe, Anela, Lady & Tasha) just lucky?
 
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