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Discussion Starter #3
I think no matter what side of the fence you are on, or whether or not you like Michael Moore, documentaries like this are important if for no other reason than to raise awareness. I also watched 'Sicko'... the side presented seemed pretty factual. he tries to talk with "the other side", and documents this... but "the other side" won't even let him in the building. Just makes the viewer wonder what they're hiding. It would be hard to show both sides, if the other side won't speak up.

In Capitalism, GM won't even let him up the stairs.
 

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Capitalism has made Moore rich.

I am not sure I can watch anymore of his movies. They are so one sided, he never presents ALL the facts. Sicko was a prime example.

couldn't agree more!

theresa, you watching movies made by a fat man that doesn't eat organic? ;)
He could have starred in Supersize Me! :)
 

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I saw Capitalism in the movies on the day it came out. I also pre-ordered the DVD from Amazon.

The information presented is compelling.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
couldn't agree more!

theresa, you watching movies made by a fat man that doesn't eat organic? ;)
He could have starred in Supersize Me! :)

LOL! That make me laugh for real! =)

But yeah, I am pretty open minded in what I watch, read, then I form my own opinions.
 

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I think no matter what side of the fence you are on, or whether or not you like Michael Moore, documentaries like this are important if for no other reason than to raise awareness. I also watched 'Sicko'... the side presented seemed pretty factual. he tries to talk with "the other side", and documents this... but "the other side" won't even let him in the building. Just makes the viewer wonder what they're hiding. It would be hard to show both sides, if the other side won't speak up.

In Capitalism, GM won't even let him up the stairs.
Honestly, if I was the "other side" being interviewed I wouldn't speak or let him in either. He has an amazing capacity to put a "spin" on things and edit where needed. The other side is shown in another documentary ;) That's what makes Moore controversial.
 

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Then I form my own opinions.
I cannot form an opinion on Moore's facts. Thats exactly what they are.... "His facts"

Example....In Sicko why does he go to the nicest hospital in England? He also fails to mention wait times for surgery such as hip replacement or hernia (my Mom's fiance was told 8 months for the latter before paying privately). And then there was the hospitals in Cuba. I could go on.

I don't blame GM for not letting him in because he would only spin what they said to make his film work for him. Moore has made money out of being controversial. How would he sell films if he presented all sides of a story?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Controversial is good, though. gets people thinking. Thinking is good. I think If I were being misrepresented, and I was doing nothing wrong, I would want the opportunity to speak up for myself, not just to my "fans", but to my opposition as well.

I think anything that gets people questioning their government is good. I'm, not saying all of the information presented is accurate, but it's surely not all inaccurate either. There is some truth there, and that is worth exploring, imo.
 

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I find it hard to find anything he does compelling......or anything but laughable.

He has an agenda and builds up whatever info on the subject he can to tell a good tale......using the info that supports his point and conveniently omitting ones that don't. (which is fine as long as you remember that's what it is)

It's not a documentary at all........it's an infomercial. It's like watching a Sham-WOW infomercial.
 

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Is anyone surprised GM wouldn't let him up their stairs? I'm certainly not. Moore has a way of spinning words to fit his agenda. GM has a lot more important things to worry about at the moment than dealing with Michael Moore. It would not have been a smart PR move.

I have not seen it. I do like his documentaries, but I don't take them as fact. There is a clear bias in his work. And I think when doing documentaries, there should not be. It should just be the facts.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I cannot form an opinion on Moore's facts. Thats exactly what they are.... "His facts"

Example....In Sicko why does he go to the nicest hospital in England? He also fails to mention wait times for surgery such as hip replacement or hernia (my Mom's fiance was told 8 months for the latter before paying privately). And then there was the hospitals in Cuba. I could go on.

I don't blame GM for not letting him in because he would only spin what they said to make his film work for him. Moore has made money out of being controversial. How would he sell films if he presented all sides of a story?
I know what you are saying, but refusing to listen to a person's opinions... even if you don't agree, is really head-in-the-sand to me.

Refusing to speak to someone because you are afraid of them? that they might "spin" your words? Is GM afraid of Michael Moore? or any fimmaker?

Liking Michael Moore was never the point, questioning government and capitalism should be the point. I think anything that gets people thinking and questioning is good. =)

I don't form my opinions based on one source, I look at many, to try to get a balanced view. Then I form my opinion. I don't completely dismiss facts or opinions from any source because I don't like what they are saying. i think people need to hear all sides, including the ones we may not agree with, to see a situation accurately.

A lot of what was in that film (an opinion piece, in my view) was valid. What hit me the most was the employment aspect. People working for companies for decades and being shafted when the company goes bankrupt (GM). And the practice of companies taking life insurance policies out on select employees, then cashing in if something happens to them. Those events happened, and you just can't spin them. maybe there was some spin in the film, I am sure, but some events are just fact. They were real. that is what startled me most.

I also want someone to explain dividends to me, because I was totally lost on that point :s
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Is anyone surprised GM wouldn't let him up their stairs? I'm certainly not. Moore has a way of spinning words to fit his agenda. GM has a lot more important things to worry about at the moment than dealing with Michael Moore. It would not have been a smart PR move.

I have not seen it. I do like his documentaries, but I don't take them as fact. There is a clear bias in his work. And I think when doing documentaries, there should not be. It should just be the facts.
I consider them films, not documentaries. I think documentaries should be fact based and not opinion based. He's like the Wikipedia of documentaries.
 

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.....

A lot of what was in that film (an opinion piece, in my view) was valid. What hit me the most was the employment aspect. People working for companies for decades and being shafted when the company goes bankrupt (GM). And the practice of companies taking life insurance policies out on select employees, then cashing in if something happens to them. Those events happened, and you just can't spin them. maybe there was some spin in the film, I am sure, but some events are just fact. They were real. that is what startled me most....
I know what you mean, but in the case of GM the [former] rank and file employees also have to share the blame. For years they used the power of the union to hold auto companies hostage. The line workers were significantly overpaid. The high labor costs put U.S. manufacturers at a competitive disadvantage. And spiraling retiree health costs are providing a crushing blow as well.

As far as the corporate owned life insurance - the practice of insuring janitors without their knowledge and consent was disgusting and is no longer legal.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I know what you mean, but in the case of GM the [former] rank and file employees also have to share the blame. For years they used the power of the union to hold auto companies hostage. The line workers were significantly overpaid. The high labor costs put U.S. manufacturers at a competitive disadvantage. And spiraling retiree health costs are providing a crushing blow as well.

As far as the corporate owned life insurance - the practice of insuring janitors without their knowledge and consent was disgusting and is no longer legal.
I am glad to hear this. That shocked and sickened me.
 

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I have no problem with a documentarian having a viewpoint. Without a stance, a documentary becomes rather pointless, doesn't it? Here's issue A). Here's side 1, 2, 3. Roll credits.

My problem w/Moore is that his viewpoint seems to be completely antithetcal to mine. The US sucks. All big business is inherently evil. Our government is inherently evil. All health care is inherently evil. Capitalism is inherently evil.

So he becomes like that moron cousin of yours, who sits in the corner at family reunions in a dirty tee, munching through a bowl of Cheezits with his grimy orange fingers and spouting off goofball theories:

"Bush personally detonated the WTC, you know. He pushed the plunger himself. Well, he pushed the plunger on One and Rove pushed it on Two..."

"Barack Obama was born in Sri Lanka, you know. And was a cannibal. With a bone in his nose. I've seen the pictures..."

Why would I plunk down $10.50 for that??
 

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I know what you are saying, but refusing to listen to a person's opinions... even if you don't agree, is really head-in-the-sand to me.
So you must listen to Rush Limbaugh? Weigh his opinions and find the truth in them?

Moore is just Rush.......but on the other side.
 

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what does Moore's weight have to do with anything? as said above, a good documentary has a very visible point of view, and a clear agenda--its up to the viewer to make up their own mind after watching the movie. and FTR, I don't think Moore hates America or the government--he has a point of view and is trying to "expose" problems and shed light on what he believes to be wrong in various aspects of society. of course he's a liberal, and his views are accordingly liberal--you don't have to agree with his political views to take something away from his work--even if it only confirms your own thinking about things.

i'm a liberal, and make sure I watch Fox News every now and then, just to see how they are "spinning" things. it makes me a more informed person. ;)
 
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