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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Everyone,

I am new here and have spent days going through the threads, what a great site! I will be picking up my chocolate lab in the middle of June. I do have a questions...in my breeder's agreement it states that I cannot get my dog neutered for 18 mths. What are your thoughts? I initially wanted a female but after seeing the mother she is quite small and quite short (min standard breed) so I opted to go with the male as I wanted the bigger dog. I know about the health risks and the marking but he assures me that they are all training issues. comments please!
 

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That sounds strange to me, but I am sure that particular breeder has his reasons.

I think one way to look at it is, they are his pups; he can stipulate whatever he wants. On the other hand, you are also free to select a different breeder with different stipulations. Would this be an option for you?

Steve
 

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I think Labby on the board has a similar contract for her puppy buyers?

Or maybe I am just imagining that. You might want to PM her if she doesn't see this.
 

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The reason the breeder doesn't want you to neuter until 18 months is because he/she wants the dog to reach full maturity before you remove his testosterone factory. Whether it's true or not I don't know but some believe that if a dog is neutered before 18 months the dog will lack the muscle mass associated with a male.
Olie
 

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Sounds like you are getting a decent dog from a breeder who is current on stuff. While I don't personally agree with this philosophy, there is MERIT in waiting for that age to neuter. You will need to be diligent in training and keeping him from escaping until you are able to neuter him. Having an intact dog is a big responsibility.

Please remember that labs in general are not large breed dogs. They are medium sized dogs if bred properly.
 

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I am not sure about 18 months but my vet told me that she would not spay Nala till she was about 6 months of age because she said it can change a young puppies temperment. Whether this is true or not I am not sure but your breeder may be thinking the same thing just waiting for your dog to completely mature.
 

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If it's in the contract, be sure to follow it. If the breeder took the time to write the contract, they likely will take the time to enforce the contract.

Clear up any negotiations/questions/issues before signing and taking the puppy home
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the replies, it is that the Breeder wants the dog to reach maturity ( he feels the dogs do not look the same if neutured early) may or may not be true but that is how he feels and what is in the agreement. I do not want to select another breeder he is the best as far as I can tell from checking many of his references. I have also already paid the deposit. I understand that labs are medium size dogs, my whole family has labs but the mother is the smallest lab that I have ever seen and I do not want to chance it. Who knows maybe the male would be short as well but not as short as the female.

My question really is for those of you that have intact males, how hard was it for you to train your dog and is it or has it caused many issues for you?
 

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Jake wasn't neutered until 12 months - I felt that was long enough and wanted him to go to dog daycare where I was working (vet/kennel/daycare facility). We had no problems with marking, he marks more now than before he lost his beans. So long as you begin basic obedience early I really don't think you'll have many problems. You do have a fenced yard correct?

If I had the luxury of working at home or always being with Jake I might've waited until two years, but I feel that for his mental health (getting out of the house and playing all day) we neutered at the best time :)
 

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we had our boy neutered at 16 mos. our breeder's contract stipulated waiting at least 12 mos and in talking to her she suggested waiting closer to 18 mos if possible, to allow him to mature fully. i trusted that she knew her dogs best and i'm glad we waited.

during the time he was intact, the only issue i could think of was he was VERY interested in females in heat (duh!) so you must must must be very careful and diligent that he does not get loose and roam.

no other issues cropped up for us, no difficulty training etc. no difference in temperament. we had a few marking episodes IN the house, but i've come to learn that that is more a behavioral issue not hormonal and this was corrected right away!

good luck!
 

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Bandit is only 6 mos old.
Our vet says to wait at least till he is 12 mos if we can.
I haven't had any prolems with his training yet.
He is actually very calm for 6 mos. but he does have his hyper moments.
 

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I LIKE your breeders contract. I also agree that for a dog to look the way it's gene's intended, it needs to reach full maturity before altering. This goes for both females and males.

We have a 6 year old intact male (I show him) and he's fine. Granted, he likes to pee on everything when we walk, but temperment-wise, he is sweet and docile. We also spent alot of time training him. I also do obedience and rally with him. But overall, if you can train for good house-manners and you are an intelligent and aware dog owner, it's really not a big deal keeping him intact. I have had more problems with people checking out his testicles and telling me their opinion than I have had with him and with other dogs.
 

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I agree w/Cynlabs -- people do tend to comment and give their opinions!

We had Toby neutered at 15 months, and the only two behaviors we had to work with were humping and peeing a billion times on a walk. He is a very easy-going dog, and when we humped a pillow, we would tell him no and he'd stop. On walks, I'd let him pee once or twice, and then when he looked like he was itching to mark, I'd say "Let's Go!!" and keep on walking.

There are many other reasons I like a male.....there have been many posts about this, and I think both sides were well represented.

http://www.justlabradors.com/forum/index.php/topic,28312.0.html
 

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I like the contract as well. We waited until Cody was 2 years to neuter him because when I bought a male dog that is exactly what I wanted him to look like; muscular and brawny as males should. The only issues we had were him marking a lot, just as everyone else has stated and we actually had more problems, when he was intact, with neutered males being aggressive towards him. We had one horrible incident when a German Shepard (neutered) charged Cody at he beach and would not leave him alone, was growling, showing teeth and poking Cody with his muzzle; the owner was no where to be found of course. I had all I could do to get this dog away from him, and Cody was just running in circles wondering what the heck the dog was growling at.

Behavior was never a problem except perhaps recall when running him off leash because he had to check out every single dog that was around. I can recall several times were he would go bounding off to see a dog in the distance and the unsuspecting owners would just see a black blur as he approached unannounced.

Oh, I don't know how I forgot about this, but we did have a problem with him peeing on people before when he was about 1.5 years old. He did it only to other dog owners and I was never so embarrassed in my life. Luckily we learned how to tell when he was ready to "strike" and were able to break him of the habit, but that was a tough one when he was running at dog beach. We had to let him know that while he may be able to mark inanimate objects people are off limits. :p
 

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I waited till 13 months with Tristan - he's solid and well filled out, a beautiful (IM0) labrador specimen, and for that I'm glad I waited. BUT there were issues.

-he had ZERO focus and interest in me. He wanted to find the girls and he was a humping fiend. Within a month of his snip, his attention span was 100% and he was back wanting to please me and training was easy again.

-I couldn't take him to the offleash park for his exercise. Not because he was aggressive in any way - but I have seen this with any number of other males around the age of 9-15 months as well - the hormone surge puts up a red flag to other dogs (male,female, fixed or unfixed) and makes other dogs want to challenge/attack the unfixed male. I didn't want to ruin his temperament, so had to find other ways to exercise him. He still has issues with certain types of dogs (black and shaggy especially) as there was a shaggy black dog that nailed him hard twice..

Marking was never really an issue (he tried once or twice inside, but that was it) and the humping eased up after the snip as well. I don't know whether I would wait again... there are pluses and minuses, as with anything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hi all,

I am really glad to hear some additional responses! Well I have decided to go with a female, I did not have a preference over the sex other than I really like the looks the male (fuller). I was hesitant about getting a female from this breeder because the mother is quite short (min) for breed standard. After doing some research and getting some opinions I opted for the female!

Thanks again everyone!
 

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Does your breeder also have a spay clause on females? Some do ask you to wait for that as well. Good luck with your new pup.
 

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Regardless of your choice, I urge you (and any skeptics) to read this article:
http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

I now "ask" my puppy owners to wait to neuter (incl females) once growth plates are closed. In many lines, this is at ~12-14 mos. One of my pups who is seen by the same breeder/vet I use was neutered at 16 mos and looks great. But, he is very easy going also... so what I tell folks is to wait as long as you can "stand it", but if pup becomes a problem, make your vet appointment.

Some dog trainers and day cares do not allow intact males in their classes, which I think is a shame. Afterall, it's the owner's fault for not laying down the law-- not the dog's fault. Common sense training and socialization will go a long ways here... -Anne
 
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