Just Labradors banner

1 - 20 of 47 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,694 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ugh....this fear of Sam thing is really getting worse. Sam and I took Apollo for a walk last night on his choke chain (we had to start using it cuz he slipped his collar to many times, no matter how tight we made it). Well we were walking along, just left the house and all of a sudden Apollo goes ballistic and rips the leash out of sam's hand and runs all the way home. I am having a heart attack because he is on a choke chain with a leash attached and if the leash got caught on anything he could get strangled. OMG it was a nightmare. We've been working on getting apollo to come when we yell "cookie" but he would NOT come back.

Then this morning while sam was walking him alone (with that leash wrapped so tight around his fist that there was NO WAY apollo could run off again) Apollo was freaking out and accidentally nipped sam on the thumb and broke the skin. Now I want to be very clear that apollo DID NOT intentionally bite sam, Apollo was just flaling around with his mouth open and when he came into contact with Sam's hand he freaked out and closed his mouth. It was pure accident, the bite wasn't hard at all, but the angle at which it happened caused it to break the skin on sam's thumb.

I dunno what to do. Right now Sam is the only one to hold apollo's leash, feed him, brush him, give him treats. Before apollo was 100% fine around Sam if I was there too, but as demonstrated last night, apparently the fact that I am aroiund doesn't matter to him any more. What on earth do we do. apollo is gunna get hurt! We are about to move and we don't have the money to enroll in training classes right now (not only that, but we won't be in this town much longer to attend the classes) we MUST wait until we move after May 8th.

I just posted about Apollo's fear of Sam not to long ago and in the day since I posted things have gotten worse. Help!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,793 Posts
Hmm... I know that people on this forum aren't exactly "Cesar Millan friendly", but I reeaaaalllllyy think that his methods could help in this situation...

Apollopuppy, check out this link
http://www.dogpsychologycenter.com/

I have used his methods of "calm assertiveness" with fearful dogs at the shelter before, and it really helped. As he says, dogs need to feel like they are in the presence of a calm, capable leader in order to start to feel comfortable...

anyways, I encourage you to look around the site and see if you can find anything that might help..

also, his book is entitled "Cesar's Way" and was really good as well. (just ignore the like, whole chapter that basically just consists of him sucking up to Oprah! ;))

I hope that helps your situation, as I said, I've had a lot of success with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,144 Posts
Please arrange an appointment with an animal behaviorist. Contact your veteranarian for a referral. This poor boy needs someone with experience to help him get through the 'hurties' from his past. My Mom brought home a cat from rescue that had issues with men and boys, and she eventually was able to be brought past her fear. There's hope, I just think it's time to bring in a professional that has all the resources and experience necessary, as this seems to be more than can be handled at home.

Good luck, and keep us posted!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,793 Posts
I totally agree with the behaviourist as well.. but those folks can be mighty expensive, especially in my "neck of the woods"!

all the best!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,694 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
MickeysMommy said:
Please arrange an appointment with an animal behaviorist. Contact your veteranarian for a referral. This poor boy needs someone with experience to help him get through the 'hurties' from his past. My Mom brought home a cat from rescue that had issues with men and boys, and she eventually was able to be brought past her fear. There's hope, I just think it's time to bring in a professional that has all the resources and experience necessary, as this seems to be more than can be handled at home.

Good luck, and keep us posted!
As soon as we move into our new home May 9th, I most certainly will be consulting an animal behaviorist. In this small town where I currently live not a single vet/fellow dog owner could reccomend a good behaviorist. The closest one is 2 hours away in phoenix. Once we move with Apollo on May 8th, do you reccomend starting with the behaviorsit the next day, or waiting until Apollo gets settled into his new environment. We will be addressing this problem as soon as possible. Oh, and since I am moving to a big city, I will have access to TONS of wonderful behaviorists. Any ideas for what to do NOW, until we can get him to see a behaviorist?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,928 Posts
Use a prong collor instead of a choke chain. If he is tightening up the leash like that; I'm sure it's pulling on the choke chain and causing discomfort to Apollo. Take him to Petsmart and have them help you fit the prong properly. The dog probably never walked on a leash before and it's going to take some time and patience. A basic obedience class would be your best bet for all of you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,694 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
zoezoe said:
Use a prong collor instead of a choke chain. If he is tightening up the leash like that; I'm sure it's pulling on the choke chain and causing discomfort to Apollo. Take him to Petsmart and have them help you fit the prong properly. The dog probably never walked on a leash before and it's going to take some time and patience. A basic obedience class would be your best bet for all of you.
Actually, Apollo is usually EXCELLENT on leash. He has NEVER pulled during a normal walk. The only time he has pulled is when he escaped yesterday. Its rough enough using the choke cuz Apollo's old owners abused him with one. I will go to petsmart to get the prong. My biggest concearn with apollo is not him pullng on the leash during walks, but actually escaping his collar when he is on walks with Sam. Apollo is excellent on leash, never tugs, and wonderful off leash up in the mountains. However when he's "running for his life" from Sam, he doesn't respond to a single recall.

Although apollo knows all his basic commands and how to behave on and off leash, we still are gunna enroll him in an obedience class (with sam) so that they can get more comfortable around each other and so apollo can socialize with other dogs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,144 Posts
The prong offered us far more control too, Mickey was a sudden bolt-er. He'd take off after a squirrel or sea gull and put us both in danger. He would be walking perfectly well then lunge after something; this ended the sudden lunges and chase attempts. Get a quick lesson from your vet or an experienced person on how to use it properly though, because it really makes all the difference.

I would start with the behaviorist as soon as you can. This issue is probably going to get worse until then. Having your SU give Apollo treats and calmly interacting with him is good, but it sounds like there are deep issues that need the extra help. In the short run, a behaviorist might cost a bit, but it will pay off in the long run when you have a wonderful boy who is able to live up to the potential he was born with, rather than the damage some a-hole did to him.

Good Luck, and God Bless You for helping him!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,694 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
MickeysMommy said:
I would start with the behaviorist as soon as you can. This issue is probably going to get worse until then. Having your SU give Apollo treats and calmly interacting with him is good, but it sounds like there are deep issues that need the extra help. In the short run, a behaviorist might cost a bit, but it will pay off in the long run when you have a wonderful boy who is able to live up to the potential he was born with, rather than the damage some a-hole did to him.

Good Luck, and God Bless You for helping him!
Thanks, for the help. LIke I said, we'll get apollo to a behaviorist asap, but at the moment even if there was one in this town to go to, we couldn't afford it. Between the cost of setting up in our new home half way across the country(first and last rent, deposit, pet deposit, utilities), paying off our bills here, repairing our car's bearings and transmission, renting a uhaul trailier, attaching a hitch to our truck, taking apollo to the vet to get him on heartworm preventative, etc we are kinda broke as a joke lol. Once we set up in St. Louis though we will be taking him to the behaviorist asap. I am gunna start researching good behaviorists to go to in st. louis right now. That way we will know how much to save up. I just want apollo to be ok. I feel so horrible for sam, this was supposed to be HIS dog!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,144 Posts
Will it be a while before you get there? I only ask, because I just thought of something; if you adopted him through a rescue, maybe they can help you with his behavior? Until then, try the prong for walks. I'm sure that a good behaviorist will be able to eventually get through to Apollo and make him Sam's boy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,123 Posts
Baloo317 said:
Hmm... I know that people on this forum aren't exactly "Cesar Millan friendly", but I reeaaaalllllyy think that his methods could help in this situation...

Apollopuppy, check out this link
http://www.dogpsychologycenter.com/

I have used his methods of "calm assertiveness" with fearful dogs at the shelter before, and it really helped. As he says, dogs need to feel like they are in the presence of a calm, capable leader in order to start to feel comfortable...

anyways, I encourage you to look around the site and see if you can find anything that might help..

also, his book is entitled "Cesar's Way" and was really good as well. (just ignore the like, whole chapter that basically just consists of him sucking up to Oprah! ;))

I hope that helps your situation, as I said, I've had a lot of success with it.
I looked on the site - didn't see anything explained about "calm assertiveness". I'm guessing I have to get the book to know more. Can you provide a short explanation here?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,694 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
MickeysMommy said:
Will it be a while before you get there? I only ask, because I just thought of something; if you adopted him through a rescue, maybe they can help you with his behavior? Until then, try the prong for walks. I'm sure that a good behaviorist will be able to eventually get through to Apollo and make him Sam's boy.
Sam and I are moving on May 8th. GET THIS! I called the place we got him from (Humane society) and I asked for help/info/advice when he was peeing in the house and chewing. Guess what they told me? He's YOUR problem now! OMG! :eek: :eek: :eek:

But then again, how can you expect much from a place like this:

http://www.flagteaparty.org/Publications/Headlines/Pages/2002/aug_2002/Severeid_shelter.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,653 Posts
You don't want to a choke chain. I know you are worried about him slipping out but you are likely doing permanent damage to his trachea as well. I can't find the study that has been posted here before- but if you search the forum for threads on choke chains, you'll likely find the link to the study that shows the majority of pets that had owners that used choke chains had severe trachea damage.

Look at cloth collars used by greyhounds called martingale collars. Much safer for dogs that try to back out- http://cgi.ebay.com/DOG-COLLAR-MART...IMITED-SLIP_W0QQitemZ7765512159QQcmdZViewItem

I have two or three very good trainer recommendations in Saint Louis.
Matt at Kennelwood is who I used for both Gabs and Matt until recently. I now use a competition oriented trainer. www.kennelwood.com

The Humane Society here offers a punch card series of classes that is very good and specializes in family pets. They have a class specializing in the fearful pet- shy dog 1 and shy dog 2. They also have a "dogs with issues" class. www.hsmo.org
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,694 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
gabbys mom said:
I have two or three very good trainer recommendations in Saint Louis.
Matt at Kennelwood is who I used for both Gabs and Matt until recently. I now use a competition oriented trainer. www.kennelwood.com

The Humane Society here offers a punch card series of classes that is very good and specializes in family pets. They have a class specializing in the fearful pet- shy dog 1 and shy dog 2. They also have a "dogs with issues" class. www.hsmo.org
OMG that sounds SOOO much better then the humane society here!

As for the choke chain, we will take apollo to petsmart today to get him properly fitted for a prong collar, thats a better idea then a choke chain, right? I don't think I've seen those greyhound collars at my petsmart, but I'll have to look for them in St. Louis, that looks like the PERFECT collar for apollo. He is afraid of metal collars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,653 Posts
Giuli- The saint louis humane society has a free behavior line listed on your website. i'm sure if you called and talked to them, you might be able to get some advice that will help "tide you over until the move."

actually, because apollo is "sensitive" :) you may want to talk to them about the move too- see if they have tricks and tips for making it easier on him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,694 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
gabbys mom said:
Giuli- The saint louis humane society has a free behavior line listed on your website. i'm sure if you called and talked to them, you might be able to get some advice that will help "tide you over until the move."

actually, because apollo is "sensitive" :) you may want to talk to them about the move too- see if they have tricks and tips for making it easier on him.
Oh my god! (crying) :'( I can see the light! Thank you sooo much. I can tell that moving back home to St. Louis is gunna make life with apollo SOOOO mcuh easier. Thank you god! I will MOST DEFINITLY call them!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,345 Posts
Apollopuppy said:
zoezoe said:
Use a prong collor instead of a choke chain. If he is tightening up the leash like that; I'm sure it's pulling on the choke chain and causing discomfort to Apollo. Take him to Petsmart and have them help you fit the prong properly. The dog probably never walked on a leash before and it's going to take some time and patience. A basic obedience class would be your best bet for all of you.
Actually, Apollo is usually EXCELLENT on leash. He has NEVER pulled during a normal walk. The only time he has pulled is when he escaped yesterday. Its rough enough using the choke cuz Apollo's old owners abused him with one. I will go to petsmart to get the prong. My biggest concearn with apollo is not him pullng on the leash during walks, but actually escaping his collar when he is on walks with Sam. Apollo is excellent on leash, never tugs, and wonderful off leash up in the mountains. However when he's "running for his life" from Sam, he doesn't respond to a single recall.

Although apollo knows all his basic commands and how to behave on and off leash, we still are gunna enroll him in an obedience class (with sam) so that they can get more comfortable around each other and so apollo can socialize with other dogs.
A properly fitted prong collar will not come off. Get the one with the swivel where you attach the leash. prong collars are designed to mimick the bite of the mother or older dog to correct improper or unwanted behavior.

A choke collar can cause trauma to the neck. I have the link at home or I would attach it here of a study i saw where dogs who used a choke collar ha dsignificantly more neck trauma than those who used a prong collar.

Good Luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,123 Posts
Apollopuppy said:
gabbys mom said:
I have two or three very good trainer recommendations in Saint Louis.
Matt at Kennelwood is who I used for both Gabs and Matt until recently. I now use a competition oriented trainer. www.kennelwood.com

The Humane Society here offers a punch card series of classes that is very good and specializes in family pets. They have a class specializing in the fearful pet- shy dog 1 and shy dog 2. They also have a "dogs with issues" class. www.hsmo.org
OMG that sounds SOOO much better then the humane society here!

As for the choke chain, we will take apollo to petsmart today to get him properly fitted for a prong collar, thats a better idea then a choke chain, right? I don't think I've seen those greyhound collars at my petsmart, but I'll have to look for them in St. Louis, that looks like the PERFECT collar for apollo. He is afraid of metal collars.
Google the greyhound collars. There are tons of sites that sell them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,694 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I did google some sites, but will the collar arrive on time if I order it??? We are moving in 3 weeks and I wouldn't be able to order it until next friday. Call me a dork, but I've never order anything online before. I'm only 19 and its my first time living away from home so I don't know how long it takes for stuff to ship. Do ya think the collar would get to me before I move in three weeks? is two weeks enough time for it to be delivered?
 
1 - 20 of 47 Posts
Top