Just Labradors banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Payton is just about 9 months old and has major allergies! We have him on Innova Evo RM which he loves and is doing great on, but with all this talk about calcium and phosphorus ratios I am concerned and don't want to hurt his development. Timberwolf makes an Ocean Blue which he can have and I just wanted to know what anyone's experiences with it have been? Also, does anyone make a beef and potato? Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
I am probably going to get ripped apart here, but I feed Innova EVO RM as well. My pup is 8 months. I had him on it before I knew better and actually tried to switch him off to TWO Wild and Natural, which has less calcium. Unfortunately, this didn't work at all for him, he got a dry, dull coat, diarrhea, and didn't really seem to care for the food. This lasted through ALL of a 16 pound bag, which was about a month. I also feed raw for about half of his diet. I have pretty high standards for the food I want him on, and Innova EVO RM works well for him. It is one of the few available to me in my area without grain. So far we have had ABSOLUTELY no problems with it, and I realize they would show up later, but I can't very well see how having him on a food which ruins his coat, gives him diarrhea, and he doesn't even like is better. The effects of the switch in food were pretty amazing to me. After about 2 weeks on the TWO, his coat started to look dull and very dry. After the switch back to EVO, I noticed a change for the better in about the same amount of time. Things are great now, with about half of a 13.5 pound bag of EVO RM left. I'm EXTREMELY careful about keeping him lean, exercising him, but not too excessively, and watching what he eats. I also know there has been some research (sorry, can't cite anything specifically here) that says puppies develop a mechanism to excrete extra calcium between 6 and 9 months. Not sure about this, but I guess at this point and with all the food issues we've gone through, I'm willing to stick with Innova EVO RM if it works for him.
Edit: I guess that was my long-winded recommendation to do what works for your dog. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
922 Posts
Unfortunately, you are not going to see the any "bad effects" from EVO until the damage is done. The excess calcium and phosporous levels of EVO can cause skeletal problems, and once you see the symptoms the damage will have been done. Even the Natura company does not recommend feeding EVO to large breed puppies.

Ks02, there are plenty of foods other than Timberwolf out there for you to try on your pup. There are even other Timberwolf foods that you could try, and you could get a completely different response than the one you saw with the Wild & Natural.

I love a great looking coat as much as the next person does but there's more to a dog's health than coat. Growing puppies need a diet that is moderate, as far as fat and protein go, or else they tend to grow too fast and this can cause multiple skeletal problems.

Also, did you get your pup from a breeder? If so, what food do they recommend you feed? Does the breeder know what you are feeding? Many breeder's contracts regarding hip dysplasia, etc., can be voided if you feed an improper food. I certainly wouldn't guarantee a puppy that had been fed EVO during the growth period.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,829 Posts
ks02...How old was your puppy when you put him on the EVO? I hope he doesn't pay the price for the unnecessary chance you've taken.

To the original poster, I love Timberwolf Organic foods and would probably feed it if I could get it locally. I've never tried the Ocean Blue formula, but my kids all love and do well on the formulas I've used (wild and dry, southwest chicken, bison).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,765 Posts
I guess that was my long-winded recommendation to do what works for your dog.
Yes, but not when decades of research are clearly contradicting this. You may not see the damage, and hopefully none was caused, but that doesn't mean all that research should be discarded.

You're probably right, at this age it's less of a concern because they can excrete it...but there's still no proof that it is safe. Keeping them lean is a separate issue. Yeah, it's good, but it does nothing to balance out the effects of excess calcium. They're two separate issues.

I'm not going to tell you to switch or what to do, that's your business. But, I would caution anyone reading this that this is not one of those examples of "feed what works." On average, this will not work. It's especially risky in light of the fact that we don't know how to genetically screen for HD, and excess calcium really exaggerates the symptoms of dysplastic dogs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I plan on ordering the Ocean Blue and I only hope he likes it as their are no other foods I can find that he's able to eat. I wish the research was a little bit more clear on this, but I will wait a few months until I know Payton is clear from any problems then he will be back on the EVo RM he loves! I really wish that a food company made a beef and potato only formula!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
I agree! Are there any beef (or red meat) and potato formulas out there? I think Riley was about 6 months the first time I tried him on Innova EVO RM...the bag was the medium one (maybe 13.5 pounds?), and towards the end of the bag I was informed about the calcium. Unfortunately, the store I got it from misinformed me and said it would be great for him. Well, as soon I found out, I switched him to TWO Wild and Natural because of better calcium/phosphorus levels. It wasn't his coat that bothered me so much...it was the diarrhea. I really hope too, that I didn't do something detrimental to him. :( He is only about halfway through the second TOTAL bag of EVO, so if anyone has ANY suggestions about a similar food, I'd be very open to them.

Sadly, Riley came from a BYB and there are no guarantees. The breeder fed ProPlan, but didn't really recommend anything at all. I really just want him to be as healthy as he can, but I'm at a loss about the food issue. I've also done some research and would prefer to keep him on grain free food. I understand that there have been numerous studies done about calcium and joint problems, but does anyone know why the calcium has a negative effect? Isn't 1.5% the MINIMUM recommendation for calcium levels in puppy food? I'm so confused. ???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,765 Posts
I understand that there have been numerous studies done about calcium and joint problems, but does anyone know why the calcium has a negative effect?
It promotes rapid growth, and depositing calcium into the bones promotes premature ossification. Therefore, any deformities in the bones (especially hips) can be dramatically worsened by feeding too much calcium. The latter is less of a concern after they can get rid of the excess calcium as opposed to depositing it in their own bones.

1.5% is generally the maximum a lot of breeders want. There's no exact level that will or will not cause problems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
922 Posts
I would stay away from grain free foods until your pup is older. The grain free foods are very high in protein and fat and are too "hot" for a growing pup.

IMO, the best thing you can feed your pup is a good large breed puppy food. Innova makes a good one and so does Eagle Pack. The Innova food is chicken and turkey based, I believe, and the Eagle Pack is lamb based. Either is a great choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
We went to the store today, and apparently they have recently started carrying Canidae. We are going to try the Lamb and Rice formula and hope he does ok with this. From what I can understand, it will be safer and a lot cheaper as well. If Canidae had been available in my area, I probably would have tried it before, but until now, there was no one who carried it. I guess we'll make the switch and donate the rest of the bag of EVO to the humane society. :-\ What a waste, but I guess it's probably best.

Bolts21-good luck with Payton and the Ocean Blue. Hopefully this works for you. If not, do you know if Solid Gold is available in your area? I think I remember hearing they have some unique formulas. I'm not sure about the calcium levels though, and I don't think their site tells either.

JacksAndLabs-it's a personal preference of mine to steer clear of Purina. I've read about some people's dogs doing well on it, but I don't like some of the ingredients and won't support a company who also makes a food as awful as Beneful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks and you do the same! It's hard finding a good food when your dog is allergic to turkey,duck,rice,milk,wheat,corn,snd pork. I'll check Solid Gold, thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,765 Posts
I would stay away from grain free foods until your pup is older.
There are some out there that would be okay, not all have excessive amounts of calcium like EVO. Ocean Blue is one of them (only 1.5% calcium, but no grains).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hick, do you know of any other food which is grain free and has alright levels of calcium for puppies?? Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
I didn't realize Ocean Blue was grain-free. I would think that would be a great food to think about. I'm hoping Canidae works for us, but if not, I will keep Ocean Blue in mind. Thanks for bringing that to my attention!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,928 Posts
JacksAndLabs-it's a personal preference of mine to steer clear of Purina. I've read about some people's dogs doing well on it, but I don't like some of the ingredients and won't support a company who also makes a food as awful as Beneful.

LOL; sorry, that just made me laugh. I'll be sure to tell the lady at the dog park who has a 17 year old lab who has eaten Beneful her entire life. And no, I don't feed it...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
LOL; sorry, that just made me laugh. I'll be sure to tell the lady at the dog park who has a 17 year old lab who has eaten Beneful her entire life. And no, I don't feed it...

I'm sorry...how is that funny?
All I'm trying to do is feed my dog the best food I can for him. I don't really think it's appropriate to laugh at someone because they don't want to feed their dogs corn and preservatives. It's sad to me that people have to make fun of others on here who really want what's best for their dogs. If I didn't want others' opinions and HELP, I wouldn't be on here. What I didn't come here for is replies like this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,373 Posts
ks02 said:
LOL; sorry, that just made me laugh. I'll be sure to tell the lady at the dog park who has a 17 year old lab who has eaten Beneful her entire life. And no, I don't feed it...

I'm sorry...how is that funny?
All I'm trying to do is feed my dog the best food I can for him. I don't really think it's appropriate to laugh at someone because they don't want to feed their dogs corn and preservatives. It's sad to me that people have to make fun of others on here who really want what's best for their dogs. If I didn't want others' opinions and HELP, I wouldn't be on here. What I didn't come here for is replies like this.
Geesh, a bit touchy, aren't we. What makes you think Zoezoe was laughing at you? ::) Just like you would never feed a dog Purina, I would never feed my dog Canidae, again. Different strokes for different folks. :p
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top