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This past weekend I saw Al Gores presentation on climate change at the Green Living Show in Toronto. Just wondering what you all think of the state of our environment and where you think we're headed.
 

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Quick! Someone find DoT and lock him away before he sees this!

:p
 

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http://www.crichton-official.com/speeches/speeches_quote05.html

I think you should take care of the environment....but I realize there is absolutely nothing all the humans of earth collectively can do to make one bit of difference to the temperature of the earth. While earth's climate may be in a warming state....it's no different than Mars--where scientists know they are undergoing a similar warming. I'm pretty sure...at least beyond 95% confidence level that man is not causing global warming on Mars.

I think it's a perfect religion for those who don't believe in God.....and even a good one for many who do believe in God. It has all the elements of a religious movement. It is not based on facts--but rather on hopes and faith.

IF Gore and other global warming alarmists seriously believe what they preach--they'd be doing everything in their power to reduce their own carbon emissions. They fully understand the situation is nowhere near the level they alarm us at....otherwise they'd be the first one closing their house down...not even selling it...just shutting it down...and living a very very small life...with very little carbon emissions. They simply don't believe it...but they do live out their fantasy and alleviate the guilt of being wealthier than nearly 100% of the rest of the world by saying how bad humans have caused the world to be.

It's crazy...and a lot of sane reasonable people have bought into it as evidence on this board.
 

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Source: Swedish Research Council
Date: April 30, 2007
More on:
Geography, Climate, Global Warming, Water, Environmental Issues, Oceanography
Earth's Climate Is Seesawing, According To Climate Researchers

Science Daily — During the last 10,000 years climate has been seesawing between the North and South Atlantic Oceans. As revealed by findings presented by Quaternary scientists at Lund University, Sweden, cold periods in the north have corresponded to warmth in the south and vice verse. These results imply that Europe may face a slightly cooler future than predicted by IPCC, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.


The research group, currently consisting of Svante Björck, Karl Ljung and Dan Hammarlund, has retrieved cores of lake sediments and peat along a north-south transect of Atlantic islands and adjacent land areas: Greenland, Iceland, Faroes, Azores, Tristan da Cunha, Isla de los Estados, and the Antarctic Peninsula. Based on detailed analyses of geochemistry, mineral magnetism and pollen content, hitherto unknown details of Atlantic climate dynamics have been resolved. Extensive radiocarbon dating and rapid sedimentation rates in the terrestrial deposits allow a much higher temporal resolution of the data than provided by marine sediment cores.

Our records reflect details of the climatic evolution in the Atlantic region since the end of the last Ice Age to the present day. We would have liked to compare our results to similar data sets from other parts of the South Atlantic, but no other records provide the same degree of resolution, says Professor Björck. After the end of the last Glacial both Hemispheres became warmer as a result of melting ice sheets, but during the last 9000 years we can identify a persistent "seesaw" pattern. When the South Atlantic was warm it was cold in the North Atlantic and vice versa.

This is most certainly related to large-scale ocean circulation in the Atlantic Ocean. The main current system - "the Great Ocean Conveyor" - is driven by sinking of dense, relatively cold and salty water in the northern North Atlantic. This results in southward-flowing deep-water that is replaced by warm surface water brought to high northern latitudes from the tropics and ultimately from the South Atlantic, says Svante Björck, and continues:

The deep-water formation in the north is dependent on cooling of surface water with a high salt content. If sufficiently large amounts of fresh water are supplied to the North Atlantic, such as from melting ice-sheets or major increases in precipitation, the deep-water formation, and hence the transport of warm surface water from the south, may cease or at least decrease substantially.

This is known to have happened repeatedly during the present Interglacial (the warm period since the last Ice Age). Minor disturbances have taken place in recent time, such as the Great Salt Anomaly in the 1970s, which seriously affected the cod population around the Faroe Islands. Our results from Nightingale Island in the Tristan da Cunha island group, between South Africa and Argentina, for the first time give evidence of warming of the South Atlantic associated with cooling in the north. This is a major breakthrough in palaeoclimate research.

In agreement with most other climate researchers, the Lund group is not concerned about a complete shut-down of the Gulf Stream as envisioned in the apocalyptic film "The day after tomorrow". However, future warming induced by anthropogenic greenhouse-gas emissions may influence the system.

We don’t know with certainty what will happen. Some attempts at measuring ocean currents suggest a recent weakening of the Gulf Stream, and the transport of heat to the North Atlantic region may well decrease in the future as a result of increased precipitation. Such a scenario might lead to less warming in Europe than predicted by the IPCC, but we will probably not face an arctic climate, summarizes Svante Björck.

Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued by Swedish Research Council.
 

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I believe that human beings are affecting the earth very much, in a bad way. I think it will get worse and worse, because I don't think we're going to be able to keep China and India from expanding and contributing untold amounts of whatever is harming the environment. I am also almost resigned to it happening. It IS difficult to "prove" exactly how much is totally due to us and how much might happen anyways. And even more difficult to get everyone to do something about it. I believe the Al Gore really believes what he preaches, and the fact the he doesn't move to a little cave and cease travelling about shows how difficult it is to do this ;). I think that the polar bears are goners because it doesn't take long for things to starve to death when they live in a marginal area. I just hope the ozone layer holds up, because we haven't heard much about that , and if it goes, WE go to - at least in any kind of way that I want to live. I hate being pessimistic, and I will try to do my part to help out as much as I can (becuase I have been an environmentalist from way back - but I STILL want to get that Tacoma because I WANT ONE SO BAD!).
 

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I saw "An Inconvenient Truth." The polar bear part made me so sad. :'(

It seemed like a pretty compelling argument to me. Made sense. Tell you what, that was a top-notch presentation.
 

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I'm sorry, but it's all a load of bull poopy.

There is NO scientific proof that we are causing the earth's "global warming". Fact shows that the earth goes through normal warming periods REGARDLESS of humans.

For that matter, the other planets go through similiar warming and cooling periods. And there are no SUV's on Venus or Mars.

Pure, liberal, media, hype, bull poopy.
 

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raian said:
I'm sorry, but it's all a load of bull poopy.

There is NO scientific proof that we are causing the earth's "global warming". Fact shows that the earth goes through normal warming periods REGARDLESS of humans.

For that matter, the other planets go through similiar warming and cooling periods. And there are no SUV's on Venus or Mars.

Pure, liberal, media, hype, bull poopy.
When Mars is going through a very similar global warming--one would have to conclude that the "sunshine" has something to do with it. Solar radiation likely is a cause--and that cause has gone on since the history of earth. If we wanted to warm the earth up a few degrees there is NO WAY we could do it....and if we wanted to cool it a couple degrees there is no way we could do it. It's pretty obnoxious of us to think we have that ability. It's okay for us to not be able to solve something that isn't meant to be solved.

Animals have become extinct...and that's a great thing. I'm personally glad dinosaurs aren't here. That extinction was a GREAT thing. There are reasons for extinctions...there is reason for climate change. A couple major volcanic eruptions can put off more CO2 emissions from each explosion than the combined cumulative emissions from mankind and their factories, automobiles etc

It's a way to wrap yourself around a feel good topic....to show "you care" and are "one with the earth".......yep pure liberal, media, bull poopy.
 

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kaisdad said:
Dad of Toby said:
Ultra-conservative waste of bandwidth. The Canada Free Press, that is.
And most global warming articles are in ultra-liberal waste of bandwidth site. Those scientists who aren't associated with liberal lobby groups who are working independent of politics seem very conservative to happy liberal guys like yourself. I love how the "paper" is reason a story isn't credible. If they reported it snowed yesterday you'd be suspect because it was "ultra-conservative waste of bandwitdth."....

try arguing what the scientists have actually said rather than dismiss it simply because you don't like the paper.
 

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raian said:
For that matter, the other planets go through similiar warming and cooling periods. And there are no SUV's on Venus or Mars.
"Objection: Global warming is happening on Mars and Pluto as well. Since there are no SUVs on Mars, CO2 can't be causing global warming.

Answer: Warming on another planet would be an interesting coincidence, but it would not necessarily be driven by the same causes.

The only relevant factor the earth and Mars share is the sun, so if the warming were real and related, that would be the logical place to look. As it happens, the sun is being watched and measured carefully back here on earth, and it is not the primary cause of current climate change.


As for the alleged extraterrestrial warming, there is extremely little evidence of a global climate change on Mars. The only piece I'm aware of is a series of photographs of a single icy region in the southern hemisphere that shows melting over a six year period (about three Martian years).

Here on earth we have direct measurements from all over the globe, widespread glacial retreat, reduction of sea ice, and satellite measurements of the lower troposphere up to the stratosphere. To compare this mountain of data to a few photographs of a single region on another planet strains credulity. And in fact, the relevant scientists believe the observation described above is the result of a regional change caused by Mars' own orbital cycles, like what happened during the earth's glacial cycles.

See Global Warming on Mars? from RealClimate for much more detail about this issue.

Turning to the outer reaches of the solar system: in the icy cold and lonely Kuiper Belt was observed a difference in Pluto's atmospheric thickness, inferred from two occultation observations 14 years apart. But a cursory glance at Pluto's orbit and atmosphere reveals how ridiculous it is to draw any conclusions about climate, much less climate change, from observations spanning less than even a single season, let alone enough years to even establish the climate's normal state.

Anyone trying to draw conclusions about what is happening here on earth from all this might as well be from another planet.

Back to Mars for a quick summary:

On Earth, we have poles melting, surface temperature rising, tropospheric temperatures rising, permafrost melting, glaciers worldwide melting, CO2 concentrations increasing, borehole analysis showing warming, sea ice receding, proxy reconstructions showing warming, sea level rising, sea surface temperatures rising, energy imbalance, ice sheets melting, and stratospheric cooling, all of which leads us to believe the earth is undergoing global warming driven by an enhanced greenhouse effect.

One Mars we have one spot melting, which leads us to believe that ... one spot is melting.

Forgive me for not being reassured."

Taken from:

http://gristmill.grist.org/
 

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Dad of Toby said:
try arguing what the scientists have actually said rather than dismiss it simply because you don't like the paper.
I dismiss it because the paper is a joke amongst anyone with a pulse and capable of rational thought. Racism, plagiarism, defamation, conspiracy theories, etc. are all the sorts of things I'd expect from a grocery check-out tabloid, not a reputable newspaper.
 

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Even if you don't "believe in" global warming, especially as caused by humans, there are plenty of things that we DO effect directly and in turn directly affect us. Air pollution, ozone layer, clean water supply, etc. These are still things that constantly need our attention, and if the subject of global warming brings peoples attention to these areas and makes us aware that we actually live on our planet and things we do very much affect it, then so be it!
 

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My two cents.
One factor that seems to be ignored by both sides of this argument may well be the main factor in this current warming cycle, the decline in the earth's magnetic field. This is hard science and is measured. Over geologic time the magnetic field fades, reverses poles, and restrengthens. In the last 150 years the field has weakend by 10%. What does this have to do with warming? As the field weakens more cosmic radiation reaches the earth.
Another adverse effect that may just now be starting to show, and this is my own theory, is the decline in honey bee populations. Honey bee navigation relies on the magnetic Field. If the field is weakening then it is logical to assume it is affecting the bees. This may be more devastating to human populations long before the adverse effects of warming as food production is highly dependent on bees for pollination.
Here is a link to a short article in the National Geographic News on the decline in the magnetic field:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0909_040909_earthmagfield.html
 
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