Just Labradors banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,663 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

I have a 6 month old chocolate female named Java. In October we will be getting a second chocolate female at 8 weeks of age (she'll actually be Java's sister-same mom and dad). Java will be 9 months old at that point and the new puppy Moka will be 8 weeks. What kind of challenges can I expect? I have been doing all the training with Java (walking on a leash, recall and other commands) and she has been doing extremely well (ok, she still gets really, really excited when she sees other dogs and pulls to go to them, but we're working on that). So...how bad/good is it going to be?????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,793 Posts
Well, I'd be a little concerned because it sounds like Java's mom was bred on back-to-back heats, which is generally frowned upon as a poor breeding practice. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,793 Posts
Well, basically because it's really hard on the dog to go through the process of being pregnant, raising puppies/nursing etc. It takes a lot out of them both mentally and physically. That's why most responsible breeders won't breed more than once per year, to give their girls time to recuperate.

I know that in some circumstances where having pups seems very easy on the dam breeders will breed back to back and it's accepted, but I personally wouldn't support a breeder who did that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
806 Posts
Back to back breeding have there place for the right reasons, well ANY breeding should be done for the right reasons ;) My worry about what you've written is that this breeder did the exact same breeding 6mo later...why? So....do both parents have hip, elbow and eye clearances? Some sort of titles? If not, I wouldn't recommend going back to that breeder period.

To actually answer your question, how bad it's going to be depends on where your current girl is training-wise. There will be backslide when you bring in a new puppy with a young dog in the house, which is why most recommend waiting at least a year between dogs as well as making sure the current dog is well behaved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,424 Posts
I wouldn't do it based on the fact that they are breeding the same two together just 6 months later. Why? Do they own mom and dad? Clearances? Titles?

The back to back thing wouldn't bother me so much if a) was a very small litter the first time, not enough pups for them to chose from (did they keep a puppy? If no, RED FLAG!) b) these have been mom's only litters c) they aren't just keeping her to be bred. What titles do the dogs have?

Sounds like a bad idea to me though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,118 Posts
Without more information about the breeders and their reasons, I'm going to stay out of the debate as far as that goes (but I agree that you probably want to ask some questions).

I will say that you will more than likely have some back-sliding on training with the older pup when the new one initially comes in. But if you keep up with the first one's training, you'll probably find that the younger picks up from the older one, making some things easier. This was certainly the case when we adopted Chamois (as a 12-week old rescue) when Toby was about a year old. We didn't intend to have two that close in age. Leash manners walking the two of them together took a while. But basics like sit, stay, down, shake, wait to eat until told OK, and recall were really simple with the pup since she just watched Toby do everything first.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,345 Posts
Aside from the breeder question, IMHO they are too close in age. When Barney came home, he was 9 weeks and Tal was almost 2 yesrs old. That has worked out really well for us. But there are alot of folks who do get them close together in age and it works very well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,376 Posts
I think of how Milly was at 9 months (who is now just shy of 2) and could never ever imagine having another dog. OMG!! Talk about hectic.

I think of her now at age 2 and having another dog and ...... mmmmmmm....... nope.... Hectic!!!!! I think I'll be waiting until she's well past 3 before I get another. And she is not high-energy either.. or what I would class as high-energy. But her around other dogs, she completely changes! Her obedience goes out the window, she acts crazy and and she does-not-stop. Ugh. Times that by 2 and 24/7?? I'm not ready to handle that kind of chaos LOL

Point of my post is... how your 9 month old PUPPY is generally is how your 2-3yr old LAB is.... still a Puppy. Do I want 2 Puppy-minded LABS for 4 years? OMFG no way. LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,732 Posts
I, over the years have always had 2 dogs close in age, in my current pack I have Jasper who is 12.5yrs and then my puppies who are 2 and 1 respectively in September. I lost Jasper's partner Jonah, last yr aged 11.

In my experience I have never had any real issues, I have always put the training in and stood no messing with them, they know I'm pack leader and in my opinion if you're doing all the right things with one dog it's as easy to do it with two.

They are very close with each other and have a wonderful bond, I find that being similar in age they are more tolerant of each other as they have the same energy levels and physical abilities, my old boy understandably gets grumpy with them sometimes due to age and wisdom!. I find the youngsters help to exercise each other, they "look out" for each other and my more sensible boy sets a good example to my more mischievous girl. I would recommend another pup for sure...as for what has been asked about your breeder, I too would want reassurances there.

Good luck with your decision, I hope it all works out for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,663 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I can answer a couple of the breeder questions.....the litter that Java is from was her mother's first litter. This will be her second litter. She gave birth in January for the first litter and will give birth in October for the second litter. We saw the mother when the pups were 4 weeks old and she had recovered beautifully. She is 3 years old and after this litter the breeder will only breed her one more time. The reason that she is breeding to the same male again is because the puppies are just beautiful and they have wonderful temperments. It was a good breeding that produced fantastic puppies. Both parents have all the clearances. Neither one has any titles....but what does that matter? They are breeding them for pets and obedience/agility training, not for show. As a matter of fact, the breeder that owns the male is keeping 2 females from the litter due in October. The breeder does not have the dogs just for breeding, they are family pets as well and live with her in her house. They are not kennel dogs as you see at some breeders. We did our research before we got Java, both online and in person. We visited a few breeders and decided to go with this one and we could not be happier with Java, which is our reason for wanting to get another pup from the same parents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,555 Posts
Abbey and Coco are 9 months now. They both love other dogs and puppies. They are a lot more gentle with the puppies and smaller dogs than I expected. You just have to have constant supervision with both of them so you can catch any unwanted behaviors before they get out of hand. Good luck and be sure to post some pictures when you get the new puppy home.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,990 Posts
It does matter that she does not show them (or test them via some sort of competition). It is important to get outside validation that a dog is an exceptional example of the breed. Only exceptional examples should be reproducing. There are hundreds of thousands of very nice Labs in the US with lovely temperaments - that does not mean that they are worthy of reproduction.

Your breeder sounds very much to me like a BYB (back-yard breeder) and that explains the back to back breeding of this *****. This is not someone I would support by buying a puppy from them.

Reputable breeders with exceptional titled dogs produce more than enough pet quality puppies without people breeding pet quality dogs to produce more pet quality dogs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,962 Posts
My 2 are about the same in age differance that yours will be - Moose was born in Feb and Sky in Oct. Beside the breeder issue, it really depends on the time you have to spend. I work and have a son so for me it wasn't really the best. I wish I had waited until Moose was 2 before adding a 2nd, but I love them both so much it is hard to think about not having made the decision I made. We were very lucky in that Sky is a really, really good dog. She learned quickly from Moose and didn't pickup his bad habits other than barking when someone comes to the door. Had she been as rambuctious as Moose was when he was little (still a bit of a bad boy) it would have been much harder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,663 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
So only dogs that are show dogs or in some type of competition and have titles should be bred? That's a very narrow minded statement in my opinion. Are you telling me that every person this site that has purchased a puppy or a dog has bought only from breeders with competition quality dogs? I don't agree with that at all. The breeder is a very responsible breeder with wonderful dogs and produces wonderful puppies that display the great characteristics of the breed. The dogs all have the proper CERF and OFA clearances for eyes, hips and elbows, so she is not breeding bad dogs. There are titled dogs in both parents' lines.
That statement really rubbed me the wrong way and seems very snobbish and narrow minded. I came here for information and support. Not to be lectured and treated like an irresponsible pet owner and a bad person.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,446 Posts
How is your girl now? Do you have her trained very well? Is she still very hyper or is she more mellow?

If you have your dog trained perfectly now, she will teach the new dog. I would be working VERY hard with her now so that you won't have two crazy puppies running around. :)

Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,663 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Also, all the puppies are sold with a spay/neuter contract so no more "pet quality" dogs will be produced from the litters. Java has already been spayed as will the new puppy when we get her.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,663 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Yes, Java is trained very well now, not perfect of course. I work with her every day on her training, both on and off lead. My brother worked exclusively with retrievers (not just labs, but Chessies and other types) to train them and also bred his chocolates and had a field trial champion, so I have a wonderful source of information in him. I worked with him extensively prior to bringing Java home and now we have owner "training" sessions once a month so that he can train me to train Java properly. He has also worked with Java on training. She is very smart and easily trainable, not stubborn at all (yet). Very quick learner. So...yes, I am aware of how important the training is before bringing a second puppy home and we work on it every single day, both at home and at the park with other dogs and people.

Java has always been very mellow. When going to pick her out my brother told us to pick the laziest looking puppy, not the hyper, jumping, barking ones. So that's what we did. We picked her for her mellow temperment and she has kept that temperment. She still has her crazy moments, but overall she is very, very laid back.

Thank you!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,990 Posts
So only dogs that are show dogs or in some type of competition and have titles should be bred? That's a very narrow minded statement in my opinion. Are you telling me that every person this site that has purchased a puppy or a dog has bought only from breeders with competition quality dogs? I don't agree with that at all. The breeder is a very responsible breeder with wonderful dogs and produces wonderful puppies that display the great characteristics of the breed. The dogs all have the proper CERF and OFA clearances for eyes, hips and elbows, so she is not breeding bad dogs. There are titled dogs in both parents' lines.
That statement really rubbed me the wrong way and seems very snobbish and narrow minded. I came here for information and support. Not to be lectured and treated like an irresponsible pet owner and a bad person.
Gee - I did not call you a name or belittle you in any way. I did not treat you like a bad person - you read into my comment what you wish. What I did do is provide info. You can take it or leave it. Learn from it or not. Whatever.

Responsible breeders breed for the betterment of the breed - with the goal of producing examples of their chosen breed which are as close as possible to the breed standard. Not just to make puppies to sell.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,663 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Apparently I read more into your post than I should have.
Looking at my dog's pedigree I have realized that her grandparents on her father's side are both titled with show wins...CH Empress Faded Glory and CH Hightide BonaVenture's Cap'n Jack. On her mother's side there are titled dogs in the lineage. So maybe she's not from such bad stock after all. Her father does have some show wins, although her mother is not a show dog at all. I apologize if I have not adhered to the standards that people have set for buying dogs from a breeder, but I did research and made sure that my puppy's parents had all the clearances and I met both the Dam and the Sire prior to bringing her home. She is spayed, so no reproducing for us. Bottom line-she is my baby and I love her to death. She has an amazing temperment and I think she is beautiful. She is well card for and will never, ever be neglected or mistreated.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top