Hey Joel...
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Thread: Hey Joel...

  1. #1
    JacksAndLabs is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultHey Joel...

    Do you have labradors? Or are you visiting all kinds of breed forums? Just curious what pulled you into our little corner of the web
    ~Nicole<br />Grand Ledge, MI<br /><br />

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  3. #2
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Hey Joel...

    Don't expect an answer soon. I suspect he's visiting and posting on as many different forums as he can find so he's not reading many replies.

    This is a copy of an e-mail I just sent to Daniel Flora:


    Daniel --

    Joel Silverman has recently been making posts:

    https://www.justlabradors.com/forum/i...c,87295.0.html

    He also references his website in his posts.

    I visited it and read his section on whether people should get a
    mutt or pure bred.

    In the section for mutts, he raises a number of questions for a
    family to consider and then suggests rescue, shelters, humane
    societies, etc., as places to look for the dog.

    In the section on pure breds, he divides them by size (tiny through
    large). His descriptions are a short paragraph long and for more
    information refers the interested person to a website or an e-mail.

    What disturbs me is that the websites are often (not 100%) a
    breeder with dogs for sale.

    See:

    http://www.companionsforlife.net/Pure_breds_index.htmlT

    Also, under diets for dogs, he recommends Bil-Jac and links their
    website as well as Drs. Foster & Smith for their products.

    I don't know of any other commercial links but think either they're
    there or will come.

    Because I think this is a thinly veiled attempt to sell products
    rather than to have a dialogue with other dog owners, I think his
    posts and use of the forum fall outside our guidelines for use.




    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

  4. #3
    Dani's Avatar
    Dani is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Hey Joel...

    YIKES!!! I am scared of the puppymills he has linked off of his site. I have been annoyed that he's been posting here...assuming that we are all a bunch of morons. I'm sorry, but not all of us are the idiots that are featured on AP.

    Please stay away Joel, unless you stop peddling your substandard breeders and half assed training tips. Good day sir.
    Dani, Rider & Rookie
    SHR Watson's Safari Rider, JH, WC, CL1-R, RA, CGC, TDI
    SHR Endeavor Put Me In Coach, RN, WC, CGC

    Member Since 6/2003

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  6. #4
    Meg
    Meg is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Hey Joel...

    It seemed very suspicious..

  7. #5
    kaytris is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Hey Joel...

    hmm.. should i remove my company website from my signature then? Have I crossed a line too?

  8. #6
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Hey Joel...

    kaytris/Nancy said
    hmm.. should i remove my company website from my signature then? Have I crossed a line too?
    IMO, no. You are what you are, just as many longtime JL members here who are breeders announce their websites.

    But Joel's posts differs from yours in several ways.

    #1 - You're a long-time contributor who's often posted on topics with other posters and about specific issues and you've offered specific recommendations to them.

    #2A - Your website (as far as I know) doesn't receive $$$ from other parties as does (see #2B below)

    #2B -- (as I presume) Joel's does with his advocacy of the Bil-Jac brand of food, Drs. F&S, and specific breeders. The selection of one Lab breeder, e.g., as the resource to ask is particularly odious as is also true for all other breeds.
    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

  9. #7
    Dani's Avatar
    Dani is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Hey Joel...

    No Kaytris, it's different. If he's coming in trying to help us "common folk" and then shove his website down our throats that have links to puppymills as good sources of getting purebred dogs, then I frankly don't want him here.
    Dani, Rider & Rookie
    SHR Watson's Safari Rider, JH, WC, CL1-R, RA, CGC, TDI
    SHR Endeavor Put Me In Coach, RN, WC, CGC

    Member Since 6/2003

  10. #8
    JoelSilverman is offline Junior Member
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    DefaultRe: Hey Joel...

    First of all, I am here to help, and I check in every day. But I don't need to do this, and if people do not want me here I will leave. I just made a decision to go out and help people. The "half-assed" training tips comment was a little out of line don't you think? You don't even know me. I think that Animal Planet and Bow Tie Press... DOG and CAT FANCY (my publisher) may disagree.

    You also made a remark about puppy mills. I am an advocate against anything close to a puppy mill, and have fought them my whole life. I do not work with anything even close to a puppy mill, I hope you can back up what you said. Here are some links to just a few of the hundreds of relationships I do have. These are the folks who stand behind me, as I am on the front pages of their websites.

    http://www.cityofirvine.org/depts/cs...re/default.asp

    http://www.nycacc.org/


    There is a reason my site is free and that is because of people that advertise on my site keep it that way. I may take in a another sponsor, but that is it. I do not want to make it commercial, but someone has to pay to keep it free. Some of you may like the sponsors, and some of you may not.. I can't make everyone happy.

    With respect to folks who own these forums, I have made it a point to not talk about companies and products in these forums.

    The pure bred area on my site is not put there to recommend a breeder. If you go to the site you will find that it is put there to specifically help the new person thinking about getting a breed. If you know anything about me, instead of me providing the information, I try to get the right person to give the reader the information. I wanted to have a breeder, someone who knows about the breed, put something that they wanted the person to know about the breed that they may not know. Hopefully this will help the new pet owner make the right decision. If you can give me some feedback on different terminology in that area, I might use it.

    Will I occasionally refer a person to my site? Yes. I have information presented in one minute step by step training clips... something that to my knowledge, no other site offers. If someone is asking about the HEEL, why not help them get the right info? (By the way, the 500-700 people a day visiting and learning from my site might disagree that they are "half-assed" training tips)

    I do have databases but they are for humane societies and rescue groups.

    I have learned that there are a lot of different forums and have found some great homes. We do weekly chats and have a lot of fun....They appreciate what I want to offer. But I also have seen the bad side too, as I have been ripped apart in other forums, just for saying I trained the animals in the IAMS commercials. Again, you let me know if you don't want me here and I am gone...



    Joel Silverman<br />www.companionsforlife.net

  11. #9
    Dani's Avatar
    Dani is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Hey Joel...

    Really? The Purebred area is not to recommend a breeder? Why the links then? Your collie breeder link is EXCELLENT. Your Golden Retriever link: http://www.goldenmeadowsretrievers.com/ is a PUPPYMILL AND A BYBer. Christmas puppies? Forced vitamin supplements? And what about the link on the Labrador Retriever's blurb? http://www.aaalabs.com/ HELLO. It's people like this that perpetuate the sheer numbers of labs in shelters!

    If you wanted to jump into a community that is very focused on helping one another, perhaps you could have jumped in without being so snarky...instead you just jump in and say HI, I AM FAMOUS, LISTEN TO MY ADVISE. Come on. Evan Graham posts here as do other well known dog trainers and they are HELPFUL, not condensending. If you want to stay and post, fine, but don't act like no one else here can't contribute to the forum.

    Have YOU read OUR BEST ADVICE thread? And the question still stands, do you OWN a Labrador? While some of their needs are the same as other dogs, many issues Lab owners go through are unique to our breed. General advice may not work in many owner's situations.

    Listen, if you want to culminate a great website for others to use, then get help from people like us who would use it. Unfortunately, your links and the complete horrific navigation have already turned me off.
    Dani, Rider & Rookie
    SHR Watson's Safari Rider, JH, WC, CL1-R, RA, CGC, TDI
    SHR Endeavor Put Me In Coach, RN, WC, CGC

    Member Since 6/2003

  12. #10
    Trickster's Avatar
    Trickster is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Hey Joel...

    Well said Dani!

    That Golden breeder...oh my. $10,000 for a 'trained' dog? I cannot believe that people are mugs enough to pay that.

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