Um...poop question?
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Thread: Um...poop question?

  1. #1
    tphilli is offline Member
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    DefaultUm...poop question?

    I am way over my head with this whole puppy thing. I didn't get a wink of sleep last night and my huband went to work and left me to fend for myself :scare:

    We got Dakota last night, he's only 7 weeks old, we had a few accidents but we're getting the hang of it. I got a crate but it was late when we brought him home and we live in an apartment building and since we didnt get to practice I couldn't just let him whine and bark so I made him a bed next to me in the living room on the floor.

    This morning he ate half a cup of puppy chow at 6:10 am and has peed 4 times pretty much every hour on the hour since then but wont poop. I think possibly because it rained and the grass is wet. There is no overhang so no dry places to take him either. And when he does poop it is very um....gooey? :surprise: is this a problem?

    Also he seems to cry and whimper for no apparent reason. He can be happily playing 2 feet away from me with his toys on the floor and then cry and then maybe one little random bark to get my attention. Even if he already HAS my attention. He does do good for the most part though.

    I would like him to get used to the crate concept though, preferably without alot of barking. I know that's alot to ask - he is a dog after all and young one at that. I tried to put treat's in there for him to find but my cats run in there and dig them out before he gets a chance to realise they're even in there! (I have 3 cats, it's hard to watch all of them and her at the same time, they're VERY mischievous)

    I'd also like to know how old a pup should be when start obedience classes as I plan to take him. Oh and is it too early for walks?

    What do you think? Lots of questions I know sorry! Your help is greatly appreciated, Thank you all so much!

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  3. #2
    henrysmom is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Um...poop question?

    Hi! Welcome to the forum!

    First, breathe. Don't freak out, you can do this.

    Yes, he's definitely too young to go for walks outside. He shouldn't be on the sidewalk/grass where unvaccinated or sick dogs may have been until he's finished his puppy series of vaccinations. This is not to say that you need to keep him cooped up in your apartment until then. Socializing him is important too... search "our best advice" thread above and I think there was another thread on socializing young pups posted recently. When I first got Henry, I took him everywhere in the car, and into the bank, the post office etc. You can also sit outside of the exit of a grocery store/mall with him in your lap (don't let him on the ground)... he will meet TONS of people this way!

    Crate training... you're home with him today, yes? Great time to start his crate training. Feed him in his crate. He will soon equate his crate with good things. Randomly throw pieces of kibble in his crate for him to find. Once he's comfortable going in on his own, close the door, praise, treat (use his kibbles), and let him out again. Gradually build up the time that he's in there. Do NOT let him out if he's barking/carrying on. This will teach him that barking gets him out. Wait until he's quiet, then let him out. This will take time, so don't get discouraged. Be consistent.

    My breeder suggested keeping a schedule when Henry came home. It worked GREAT. Write down the time you feed him/water him, when he sleeps, when he pees, when he poops. You will soon begin to see a pattern. I also took Hen out to potty very regularly at first, every hour on the hour.

    You can probably start puppy kindergarten classes after his second set of vaccinations (usually between 9-11 weeks).

    Remember that this pup's whole world has been turned upside down in the past 24 hours or so. He has left his mom and littermates, and has a new family with new surroundings. It's not unusual for him to have some GI upset. However, you should probably get him in to a vet as soon as you can to have him checked out.

    You'll find a lot of good advice here. Good luck with your pup!
    Gorsebrook Jackson Triggs, CD, RN, WC, CGN<br />Kelrobin A Twist of Fate<br /><br />

  4. #3
    tphilli is offline Member
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    DefaultRe: Um...poop question?

    Ok no freaking out, got it lol

    I have been keeping a log of his pees, naps, meals etc so that I'll learn in the future. And I'm going to try to help him figure his crate out this afternoon a bit. ( I will be home with him ALL day EVERY day, so we have lots of time )

    When you said he can't go on grass or pavement or anything, where do I take him to do his business - how do I train him if I can't take him outside? And you said until he has ALL his vaccinations does that mean he'll be ok after his first set or I have to wait until after he has ALL 3 sets?

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  6. #4
    henrysmom is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Um...poop question?

    Hmm... I was pondering just that, how those without yards potty train their pups... hopefully someone who has will chime in.

    ALL 3 sets.


    Gorsebrook Jackson Triggs, CD, RN, WC, CGN<br />Kelrobin A Twist of Fate<br /><br />

  7. #5
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Um...poop question?

    Here's a post I've often made on inside the home potty training:

    Many years ago, with my first Lab, Bess, we ran into many problems in house training -- not so much caused by Bess but by my own ignorance and ineptitude being a first time Lab owner.

    Building on that, with Puff, it was much easier.

    I don't live on the third floor of an apartment building BUT -- I kept Puff confined to the kitchen where the floor was an easily cleaned tile. I used "Nature's Miracle" or hydrogen peroxide on any offending spot after cleaning to insure it didn't broadcast radio waves that here is a good spot on which to pee again.

    I bought a large "Second Nature" dog litter tray by Purina to keep in the kitchen. There was no easy, quick access to the outside from the kitchen at that time and I didn't want to carry a dribbling puppy over a babygate, across a carpeted floor, and out the front door. By the time we got outside, all the dribble stuff would've been drained.

    http://www.amazon.com/Purina-SecondN...ref=pd_sim_k_3
    (I bought ours at a local PetsMart but PetsMart's website had only the small sizes for toy and miniature dogs.)

    While Purina al$o $ell$ a litter ($imilar to cat litter) and ab$orbent pad$ to put down in the litter tray to pick up urine, I found it was quite $ati$factory to u$e ye$terday'$ new$paper, a few $heet$ at a time.

    Since I'm retired and with Puff almost constantly, whenever I saw her tail go up and starting to squat (to pee) or her back arch with her back & front legs X'ed, I'd whisk her to the tray and reward (treat & praise) for any deposits she made there (cleaning up any misses as previously mentioned).

    It did not take long before she was seeking out the tray on her own. (Treat & praise.)

    There is a chorus of JL members who are vehemently opposed to any inside potty training and any other potty training except outside on grass.

    In support of my method, I can say it worked fine and we didn't have the slightest problem switching to going on grass outside.

    Peeing is more frequent and less routine than pooping. For instance, peeing is used to reply to pee-mail messages dogs encounter on walks and send their own.

    Pooping tends to occur a certain time after eating and exercise (playing, chasing a ball) hastens it. I marked down the times at which Puff pooped and tried to be more alert around those times either to whisk her to the tray when she was younger or, when older, take her out just before. As she matured, the "ruts" channeling her poop-times changed so I revised her schedule periodically and tried to follow it. (Her current rut, for many years, is to poop & pee at 7 AM, 2 PM, and 10 PM.)

    Since those first 7 months, Puff does all of her pottying outside.

    Her old litter tray has been thoroughly washed and now, with a pillow in it, serves as her dog bed inside her open crate (she's 63 lbs. and can coil herself to a small profile).

    In further defense of my inside method, let me add that I sail and will sometimes overnight with Puff on our sailboat. When that time comes, I'll buy a second Purina "2nd Nature" tray and perfume the papers I'll put in the bottom with dog pee extract to give her a map on where to go. That'll be easier than teaching her how to use the dink and motor to reach shore and grass.

    Also, I recall a friend who, years ago, had a Dachshund puppy named "Rheinie" Her particular apartment had a l-o-n-g way to get downstairs & outside so she potty trained Rheinie to go on paper. When he grew older, she was frustrated to find he wouldn't go when outside. She asked me (a psych grad student at the time) what to do and I suggested she take along some paper outside and let him go on that. Once that happened, she could gradually reduce the size of the paper.

    Some opponents of inside pottying may be pleased to envision a dachshund assuming a pose like a ballerina en pointe trying to hover over a postage stamp size piece of paper. Sorry to disappoint. Within a week, Rheinie not only peed and pooped on the paper but had made a successful transition to grass.

    Good luck!!


    =================================================

    ETA (edited to add) -- It appears the Amazon link is broken. On googling Purina Second Nature Litter pan you'll find some pictures of it, some places are still selling it, but it appears Purina is no longer making the larger sizes.

    Their largest was 22 x 28 x 9 inches (56 x 71 x 23 cm) and you can easily make one that'll suit your needs -- and probably cheaper than the original.

    All you need is a plastic container roughly that size (it's more than big enough for a young pup and accommodates even a larger pup). Go to a WalMart and look at their plastic storage container roughly that size and cut down the side walls to about 9". If you can, choose one that's easy to clean (the original has rounded edges & corners like a dish pan). The original also had one of the shorter sides cut down half way making for an easier side to enter.

    Then use newspaper or litterpads on the bottom to collect & absorb deposits.

    (As a side note, I have a SeaLand portable toilet for my sailboat; it takes chemicals in a bottom receptacle tank, and water in an upper flushing tank. It doesn't get used often but it does continually produce a slight odor even without receiving deposits. A new product is on the market which I've replaced my portapotti with -- it's kind of a people version of the Purina 2nd Nature. A collecting bag containing a deodorizer/decomposer is opened and spread under a toilet seat; when a deposit is made in it, it can be sealed and then double sealed in another accompanying bag. There are several versions -- Wag Bags is one, I think Double Doodie bags is another.)
    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

  8. #6
    JacksAndLabs is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Um...poop question?

    I know Bob's keen on his potty tray, but as he said, most would caution you on teaching your puppy to potty in the house AT ALL is a bad idea...pick him up and go outside. Why do double duty when you can just train him what you want him to do from the get-go. I too raised puppies while in an apartment, so I understan what youre going though. You can walk him around your apartment building to potty, but realize youre taking a chance...don't let him meet ANY dogs you don't know until he's gotten his shots.
    ~Nicole<br />Grand Ledge, MI<br /><br />

  9. #7
    tphilli is offline Member
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    DefaultRe: Um...poop question?

    Yeah I have to say the litterbox thing sounds like 3 step backwards. I know it's a risk but I'm going to let him at least do his business outside, no playing or rolling around or meeting new dogs just in and out. And I will also talk to the vet tomorrow.

  10. #8
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Um...poop question?

    Yeah I have to say the litterbox thing sounds like 3 step backwards.
    Suit yourself.

    I went in Wally-World this afternoon and saw many plastic storage containers (for between $7-13) that could easily be modified to make a satisfactory potty tray for dogs.
    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

  11. #9
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    sarah is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Um...poop question?

    We were told by our vet when we got Milly that if we had to take her outside for some reason to keep her on the pavement and don't let her meet or greet any strange dogs.

    The crate training is important, play with your puppy in the crate too. As henrysmom said, you want your puppy to associate good things with his crate. When you take your puppy out to pee, keep it on the leash (and the pavement) and when it does pee outside praisly highly and treat! Be consistent in taking out your puppy every 15 minutes if he's peeing 4 times an hour... the more consistent YOU are the quicker your puppy will learn.

    Most places won't take puppy's at puppy school until all their shots have been administered. No walks until his shots are finished either.

    Crying and whimpering I would feel are normal for a 7 week old puppy, most puppies don't leave their littermates until they're 8 weeks old. Give him lots of attention, play hide and seek in the house to teach him his name (ie: you hide, call him by name and when he finds you treat/praise and repeat)

    Oh and get ready for the biting Keep lots of great toys around for him... getting him a Nylabone will be invaluable for you.. they come flavoured to make them more appealing and remember to use his kibble as treats at this stage as his little tummy probably won't be too keen on richer treats just yet.
    Sarah & Milly - Sydney Australia






  12. #10
    tphilli is offline Member
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    DefaultRe: Um...poop question?

    We took Dakota to get his first shots, and the vet said that it would be fine to take him outside to pee and short walks were ok too. ( I can't keep him cooped up in the apartment the WHOLE time, I need some sort of outlet for his energy) As long as I don't let him meet any dogs he should be fine.

    So that is the guidance I will follow. I will not be letting him roll around in heaps of grass and leaves or anything I'm just taking him to pee and maybe one short walk around the block or something. As he has now learned that barking at the door gets him outside and is using this not only to pee and poop but now to try and play. So it is hard to distinguish the two. So if we walk him, then it gets rid of that problem. I am confident in my vets advice. And he also said puppy school was okay as well, because the sociality is of crucial importance. Puppies have to be a certain age to get their shots right? if everyone waited to get ALL their shots before attending, "puppy" school wouldn't exist. - They can't attend after the age of 14 weeks.

    Thanks for the advice about the biting as well, every little bit counts!

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