DEMON PUPPY!!
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Thread: DEMON PUPPY!!

  1. #1
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    DefaultDEMON PUPPY!!

    Well it's been a while since I posted about Bauer, as I thought he was getting better. He is now 15 weeks old and 29 lbs. We dealt with the mouthing as well as we could with all your advise and the food aggression we handled as well....now I really think I have a horrible, nasty puppy on my hands. Bauer could be happily playing with a toy or chewing on a bone when he'll wander over and snag a pillow of the couch or jump up on the table to see if he can grab something...we correct him with a loud "leave it" or "off" but I really feel sometimes he gets angry at us for correcting him...this starts the lunging at us, the biting VERY HARD (breaking skin and bleeding), the aggressive posture, growling, barking and he jumps and grabs anything he can and CHOMPS..last night he got my husband on his stomach. We tried the tucking of the lip and pressing down to give him a little nip but now he just jumps back because he knows its coming when we grab his muzzle...we pin him down firmly until he relaxes but as soon as we release he bits us even harder. My husband was pinning the puppy and correcting him over and over for 25 minutes a few nights ago and Bauer NEVER gave up, never rolled on his back, never backed down...just came back for more and got more and more aggressive. My husband and I are almost ready to give the dog up...he's not enjoyable anymore and his dominant personality is too much for us to handle...I can't have him turning nasty whenever he reals like it. We don't have kids but I have neices and nephews and I'm scared to have them come over to see him.
    I'm not sure what to do at this point...I'm really starting to regret getting him...I want to love him but he makes it impossible
    please help?

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  3. #2
    kaznalf's Avatar
    kaznalf is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: DEMON PUPPY!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lilbritgirl78
    Well it's been a while since I posted about Bauer, as I thought he was getting better. He is now 15 weeks old and 29 lbs. We dealt with the mouthing as well as we could with all your advise and the food aggression we handled as well....now I really think I have a horrible, nasty puppy on my hands. Bauer could be happily playing with a toy or chewing on a bone when he'll wander over and snag a pillow of the couch or jump up on the table to see if he can grab something...we correct him with a loud "leave it" or "off" but I really feel sometimes he gets angry at us for correcting him...this starts the lunging at us, the biting VERY HARD (breaking skin and bleeding), the aggressive posture, growling, barking and he jumps and grabs anything he can and CHOMPS..last night he got my husband on his stomach. We tried the tucking of the lip and pressing down to give him a little nip but now he just jumps back because he knows its coming when we grab his muzzle...we pin him down firmly until he relaxes but as soon as we release he bits us even harder. My husband was pinning the puppy and correcting him over and over for 25 minutes a few nights ago and Bauer NEVER gave up, never rolled on his back, never backed down...just came back for more and got more and more aggressive. My husband and I are almost ready to give the dog up...he's not enjoyable anymore and his dominant personality is too much for us to handle...I can't have him turning nasty whenever he reals like it. We don't have kids but I have neices and nephews and I'm scared to have them come over to see him.
    I'm not sure what to do at this point...I'm really starting to regret getting him...I want to love him but he makes it impossible
    please help?
    I read earlier on here if your correcting more than praising you need to take a different approach. So when you were battling for 25 minutes with him i would have stopped sooner and put him in his crate for a while until he calmed down. I think he could have thought he was playing. Start training him it will helped you bond and help him respect you more and exercise him if he is tired he wont go looking for trouble constantly

  4. #3
    doglover12 Guest

    DefaultRe: DEMON PUPPY!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lilbritgirl78
    Well it's been a while since I posted about Bauer, as I thought he was getting better. He is now 15 weeks old and 29 lbs. We dealt with the mouthing as well as we could with all your advise and the food aggression we handled as well....now I really think I have a horrible, nasty puppy on my hands. Bauer could be happily playing with a toy or chewing on a bone when he'll wander over and snag a pillow of the couch or jump up on the table to see if he can grab something...we correct him with a loud "leave it" or "off" but I really feel sometimes he gets angry at us for correcting him...this starts the lunging at us, the biting VERY HARD (breaking skin and bleeding), the aggressive posture, growling, barking and he jumps and grabs anything he can and CHOMPS..last night he got my husband on his stomach. We tried the tucking of the lip and pressing down to give him a little nip but now he just jumps back because he knows its coming when we grab his muzzle...we pin him down firmly until he relaxes but as soon as we release he bits us even harder. My husband was pinning the puppy and correcting him over and over for 25 minutes a few nights ago and Bauer NEVER gave up, never rolled on his back, never backed down...just came back for more and got more and more aggressive. My husband and I are almost ready to give the dog up...he's not enjoyable anymore and his dominant personality is too much for us to handle...I can't have him turning nasty whenever he reals like it. We don't have kids but I have neices and nephews and I'm scared to have them come over to see him.
    I'm not sure what to do at this point...I'm really starting to regret getting him...I want to love him but he makes it impossible
    please help?
    Do a time out everytime he snaps,bites or bes naughty put him somewhere he does like to go. So say if he hates being outside when his naughty put him out side for 10-15 minutes then let him back in, Keep doing this everytime he does something naughty. He will soon think oh if i do this or this i get put outside where i don't like to go. You could also do the same for his crate but if he sleeps in there it may make him not like his crate which then he will not sleep in it. You could lock him up in a different room laundry,bathroom or toilet. Also do not feed him at the same time everyday as then when that time comes he will let you know and if you feed him when he tells you he wants to be feed his also telling you his boss, Feed him when you want to feed him not when he tells you. Same goes for playing. I've taught my golden to wait for his food, I tell him to sit wait then i put his food bowl down and make him wait a father minute then i tell him its ok to eat. He needs to know that your boss and to do so only do things when your ready not when he is. Time outs works wanders with dogs so you should start there.

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  6. #4
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    DefaultRe: DEMON PUPPY!!

    I agree with doglover12. While Potter has never been as physical as it sounds like your dog is being, he has also never been submissive, meaning he never rolls on his back to show he understands that we're done. It also didn't work for us to hold his muzzle or anything like that because, like with your dog it seems, he thought that was part of the playing and only brought it on even stronger (especially with my husband who, despite my warnings, would "wrestle" with him as playtime so now Potter thinks anything like that is my husband trying to play-wrestle with him).

    So, what worked for us was basically what doglover12 said. Instead of being physical with Potter in return (which he read as playing), we had to cut off the playtime completely. We did this by giving him a "time out" in the bathroom. We'd lead him in there (or sometimes be chased in there ) and then shut him in there for a few minutes until we felt he'd calmed down (which is really the key to ending that kind of playing at that moment). When we'd let him out, we'd make him do a couple of commands: sit, down, shake, and give him a small treat. Then we'd let him out and he'd be fine. The idea is just to force him to calm down. After a while we stopped having to deal with that kind of playing at all.

    We also found that Potter was more likely to try to play physically on the rare days when he didn't get as much play time as normal. So maybe Bauer needs more exercise? Have you started an obedience class yet? That could help, too.

    It is also a good idea to begin Nothing in Life is Free, NILIF (which you can find lots of information on by searching this forum or the web). Basically, Bauer should have to "earn" everything. Make him sit before he does anything: goes outside, gets a treat, gets fed, gets petted. Make him do a couple of commands before you feed him (at variable times like doglover12 said). This helps him know that you're the one who provides all good things, so that if he wants good things he has to listen to you.

    Good luck! As the owner of a dog that used to be similar to how you describe Bauer, I can tell you that it did get MUCH better for us.

  7. #5
    jzgrlduff's Avatar
    jzgrlduff is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: DEMON PUPPY!!

    If you do "give him up", please make sure he goes back to his breeder.





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  8. #6
    Garth is offline Registered Users
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    DefaultRe: DEMON PUPPY!!

    I agree with the above comments about feeding. If you're feeding him at a set time & especially before the humans in the house, you are setting yourself up for more problems. Make sure the dog doesn't eat first & then feed him at irregular times so he learns he needs you to depend on & you're not just his slave. Also, as doglover12 said, make him wait for a while before you allow him to eat. This also reinforces to him that you're the boss & not him. My dogs NEVER eat until I say they can. When I put the food down, I give a firm NO & then when I decide they can eat, I give a not so firm OK & they know only then they can eat.

    I can't help feeling there's a more deep seated problem here. I mean Labradors, aggression, growling & biting don't normally live in the same sentence. Besides the triggers you've already mentioned, what else sets him off?.

  9. #7
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    DefaultRe: DEMON PUPPY!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lilbritgirl78
    Bauer could be happily playing with a toy or chewing on a bone when he'll wander over and snag a pillow of the couch or jump up on the table to see if he can grab something...
    This is typical attention seeking behavior. He is bored and understimulated and has a far too much freedom. There are instructions on here about using a tether in managing a problem child - leash him and tie it to your waist. Teach him basic commands and reward when he is compliant. He will start to become a puppy who craves positive reinforcement and stops doing the things that get him no reward.

    we correct him with a loud "leave it" or "off" but I really feel sometimes he gets angry at us for correcting him...this starts the lunging at us, the biting VERY HARD (breaking skin and bleeding), the aggressive posture, growling, barking and he jumps and grabs anything he can and CHOMPS..last night he got my husband on his stomach. We tried the tucking of the lip and pressing down to give him a little nip but now he just jumps back because he knows its coming when we grab his muzzle...we pin him down firmly until he relaxes but as soon as we release he bits us even harder. My husband was pinning the puppy and correcting him over and over for 25 minutes a few nights ago and Bauer NEVER gave up, never rolled on his back, never backed down...just came back for more and got more and more aggressive.
    I would never pin a puppy like this. It is junk food training. Personally I think this kind of management is likely making your puppy's behavior much, much worse. He needs training - not constant correction and punishment. Labs react very well to positive reinforcement - you need to learn about that instead of dominance oriented negative behavioral controls.

    My husband and I are almost ready to give the dog up...he's not enjoyable anymore and his dominant personality is too much for us to handle...I can't have him turning nasty whenever he reals like it.
    I really do not see this puppy as "nasty". He is in need of leadership, exercise, stimulation and training. You should consult with a trainer - but maybe raising a puppy is not for you. An adult dog might be a better choice - much less work, personality developed and easily discerned. If you decide to give him up please make sure that he gets back to his breeder or to a local breed rescue. Do not just give him away or leave him at the pound.


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    DefaultRe: DEMON PUPPY!!


    I just went back and looked at your prior post about food aggression. One of the things you were advised to try was "Nothing in Life is Free". Have you been doing that? That should have produced some results by now. It takes more time and effort than pinning, alpha rolls and dominance oriented nonsense - but you will be teaching your puppy that all good things come from you and that his obedience earns him very good things.

    Did you try NILIF?

  11. #9
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    Trickster is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: DEMON PUPPY!!

    Good advice from BigBrownDog.

    Bauer is NOT dominant. I reapeat NOT dominant. He is a NORMAL puppy that has not been given stability, direction and routine. He is also NOT "angry" -- you are placing human emotions on a canine and that is a dangerous road to go down. He is also not aggressive.

    Firstly, you were given a ton of good advice in the first thread you made. What have you tried already from the suggestions provided to you in the first thread?

    Second, stop pinning him to the ground. This will achieve nothing, aside from maybe wind him up and have him lose his trust in you. Relationships with dogs should be built on trust and pinning him on the floor is not how to go about achieving this.

    Third, he is grabbing things because he can. As mentioned, he has too much freedom. Bauer needs to be crated or loose under your 100% supervision. By 100%, I don't mean letting him mooch around a room while you watch TV -- you need to be ready to stop 'bad' behaviour, or him from grabbing things, BEFORE he does it. And you have to be consistant in your corrections AND your praise. If all the dog gets is negative, negative, negative all the time, even for complying, why should he comply? you need a reward based system that works. From all I can work out, Bauer does not have this at the moment.

  12. #10
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    DefaultRe: DEMON PUPPY!!

    I was curious like Trickster - being honest, what have you tried from the thread you posted awhile ago and how long did you give each suggestion a go?

    I also agree 100% with Trickster about paying attention to the positive things and rewarding those rather than making a scene and pinning your puppy down for negative things. It appears from all your posts (feel free to correct me if I am wrong) that you pay far more attention to your puppies naughty habits compared to his good ones so if naughtiness gets more attention - don't you think he's going to do more of that? Your puppy obviously wants your attention and if he is being "dominant" it's because you have not set him ground rules. Think of your puppy as your child... your child gets discipline and boundaries right? Why should your puppy be any different??? (By discipline I mean time out etc - not hitting your puppy)

    Sarah & Milly - Sydney Australia






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