Interesting presentations by Dr. Overall at the Atlantic Vet Conference
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Thread: Interesting presentations by Dr. Overall at the Atlantic Vet Conference

  1. #1
    kaytris is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultInteresting presentations by Dr. Overall at the Atlantic Vet Conference

    Hopefully this won't stir another firestorm.. :-\


    Several different papers of hers are on the site.

    http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB...00/PR00378.htm

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    theoconbrio is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Interesting presentations by Dr. Overall at the Atlantic Vet Conference

    I had seen that communication paper before. What's controversial about it?

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    kaytris is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Interesting presentations by Dr. Overall at the Atlantic Vet Conference

    nothing, but I didn't think the Dodman article was upsetting either.

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    theoconbrio is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Interesting presentations by Dr. Overall at the Atlantic Vet Conference

    Quote Originally Posted by kaytris
    nothing, but I didn't think the Dodman article was upsetting either.
    Oh. <backs slowly out of thread, shuts door>

    Seriously, one question I have is this idea that piloerection, when restricted to the neck or base of tail, indicates confidence. I frequently see dogs who are obviously nervous exhibit only minor piloerection. I have seen Rotties do it who I think would fall into the "confident dog" category. So I'm a little uncertain why she would separate the two categories--it seems like you would need to evaluate the signal in context to determine what kind of feeling state it's projecting.

  7. #5
    kaytris is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Interesting presentations by Dr. Overall at the Atlantic Vet Conference

    I'm trying to picture it in my mind, but I would think when its restricted to the neck area, or the tail area, alone, would present an entire differently picture than slight piloerection down the back.... I do remember when I was accosted by a drunken stranger late at night, Kaylie stepped in front of me, inflated her chest/neck ruff and puffed her cheeks, emitting a low growl - the whole picture was of a dog that certainly meant business.

    I would also assume that any of those signals aren't meant to be read in isolation, but as part of the 'whole picture'.

  8. #6
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Interesting presentations by Dr. Overall at the Atlantic Vet Conference

    nothing, but I didn't think the Dodman article was upsetting either.
    The reference to the Dodman article was NOT upsetting.

    Being one side of the so-called "fire storm", I can say that I hope Fall River re-assesses her initial reaction and continues to participate on the JL forum

    AND my upset was not to the topic, but to FR's responses about Scottt & Fuller's book which, IMO, bore not the slightest relation, cogency, application to what I consider to be the most significant, helpful book on dogs ever written. In short, I could not believe her comments were based on having ever read the book.

    I DO think that this JL forum should allow for a discussion of ideas and differences of opinions on issues -- don't you?

    Please guide me on what you believe should be the rules governing disagreements of fact and their interpretations. What principles do YOU recommend should be followed?

    Please point out what I should NOT have said.

    (Would you also please point out the things that FR should NOT have said?)

    Fire storms are rarely constructive.

    What do YOU suggest as guidelines to handle disagreements over facts (and interpretations of facts)?
    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

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    theoconbrio is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Interesting presentations by Dr. Overall at the Atlantic Vet Conference

    Bob, it is the over-the-top reaction that I think people respond to. I.e. cf. supra. That's a lot of forcefully argued prose for what was essentially an off-the-cuff quip.

    Also, just as a small point, excessive capitalization and italicization and underlining reads as shouting and haranguing.

  10. #8
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Interesting presentations by Dr. Overall at the Atlantic Vet Conference

    I.e. cf. infra.
    Means what?

    Also, just as a small point, excessive capitalization and italicization and underlining reads as shouting and haranguing.
    Thanks for the tip -- I'll try to reduce the amount I use those inflections!! ;D ;D



    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

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    theoconbrio is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Interesting presentations by Dr. Overall at the Atlantic Vet Conference

    I.e. cf. infra.
    That is, compare with that within. (Actually, I changed it to "supra," meaning "above.") That is, your response to kaytris's post could be read as a bit...erm...uh...touchy. Don't know if that's your mood or intent or not; I'm just trying to let you know how it comes across to me.

  12. #10
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Interesting presentations by Dr. Overall at the Atlantic Vet Conference

    your response to kaytris's post could be read as a bit...erm...uh...touchy. Don't know if that's your mood or intent or not; I'm just trying to let you know how it comes across to me.
    I have no idea of what "a bit...erm...uh...touchy" means.

    Could you be more specific?

    It occurs to me that perhaps there's a division on this JL forum -- between those who prefer that any divisions of opinion be addressed ONLY in the most gentle and obfuscating terms while there are others who favor "bringing it on".

    I'm obviously on the "bringing it on" side.

    This issue has come up a number of times since I joined JL forums in 2000.

    We have many wonderful, valuable members who prefer that there not be any emotional disagreements on this forum.

    BUT, in the past, whenever this issue has been debated, the consensus has been to permit a free flow of opinions expressed.

    But maybe times have changed......?

    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

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