Anyone else have a whiner?
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Thread: Anyone else have a whiner?

  1. #1
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    DefaultAnyone else have a whiner?

    Dee whines when she's not getting her own way.* *At home it's mostly just when she's waiting for her meals and it's not terribly loud, but in class it's another story.* She almost sings....and I'm not exaggerating.* :* I thought we had got passed this as she had pretty much settled down in class last Spring.* She did it a lot as a pup....to the point I had to leave the class a couple of times it was so disruptive.* Lately she's back to doing it again.* Not as bad as before, but still quite theatrical.* *People laugh at the noises she makes, but after awhile it's not funny.....especially to me!* Thing is she wants to play, socialize with the other dogs, bounce around.* She's not allowed to in class of course and finds this frustrating.* For the most part she tries (I think) to behave...other than this whining.* I've tried ignoring her, getting her to focus on me with treats, holding her muzzle and saying quiet, rewarding her with a treat when she lays quietly etc.* Sometimes she's not too bad....tonight was not one of those nights!* *:-\* Once we get moving and class gets going she's much better, but our next test involves a group "down" for 5 minutes with people/distractions.* Now I can probably get her to stay down for 5 minutes, but "she's" going to be the "biggest" distraction for the other dogs if she starts in with her vocalizing!* I'll have to talk to the trainer again next class about how to curb this annoying habit, but would appreciate any suggestions from those of you who do obedience....or have had experience with this problem.* Previously we put it down to her being an excitable puppy, (she's still pretty excitable), but she's getting too old for this behavior now(almost 2).* Just to note it doesn't correspond with her not getting enough exercise.* She had a really good walk, a play with another dog, and yard play today....so this isn't the problem.* She wants her own way and gets frustrated when she's not getting it.* "That's" the problem!* TIA

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  3. #2
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Anyone else have a whiner?

    My Puff was a whiner as a pup and still is, at times.

    When I first picked her up at 9 weeks age, by the time we'd driven 10-15 miles of the 150 needed to get home, I almost turned around and took her back -- she was so noisy in her crate.* But I made an experiment -- took her out of her crate, swaddled her in bath towels, and laid her in my lap.* That quieted her remarkably and enough to make a serene trip home and keep her.

    Puff was noisy at other times -- when puppygated to the kitchen when I was not there.

    Or when I sing.

    And she is now, whenever she gets excited knowing she's going to see someone special (dog or human).

    Although you said, "Just to note it doesn't correspond with her not getting enough exercise.* She had a really good walk, a play with another dog, and yard play today....so this isn't the problem" -- that sure would NEVER have been anywhere enough for my Puff.

    EVERY time we went to class, I had her spend at least 30 minutes of retrieving JUST BEFORE we went to class.* Throw the dummy, let her run after it and fetch it back, then repeat ad infinitum (for the 30 minutes).* That took barely enough of the fizz off.* Not that she wasn't excited seeing the other dogs but at least it was often manageable.

    I think IF you more vigorously exercise Dee for at least 30 minutes just before class, you'll find her far more manageable.* BUT that's not just walking or playdates.* What I mean is repetitive running (or swimming) as in off-leash retrieving.

    Give it a try -- you may like it.
    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

  4. #3
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    DefaultRe: Anyone else have a whiner?

    My Louie is a whiner. The first day home was horrible. He whined and howled, and even now, crate trained and all, he still whines when he is free and no one is petting him or he is bored and looking for a shoe to steal and munch on. His whining can be quite irritating to say the least. I wish I knew of a way to curb it. When I have to crate him for whatever reason, if he begins to whine I'll yell "Louie, shhhhh!" and he'll let out one last whimper and sit or lie down. Too bad that only works for a few minutes usually. :-\

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  6. #4
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    DefaultRe: Anyone else have a whiner?

    Toshiro sounds like old car brakes when he is having an argument with me. If he wants to eat that piece of paper and I stop him, he will whine for a min and then he 'll bark a couple times, and then he will sigh.

    If the dog is tired, he has nothing to whine about, unless he/she's thirsty or hungry, or want's to go pee.

    So my opinion is she needs even more exercise, or she has to take NO for an answer sometimes, and that can be a tough one.

  7. #5
    Fallriver's Avatar
    Fallriver is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Anyone else have a whiner?

    Although you said, "Just to note it doesn't correspond with her not getting enough exercise.* She had a really good walk, a play with another dog, and yard play today....so this isn't the problem" -- that sure would NEVER have been anywhere enough for my Puff.
    This is certainly enough exercise.* I see a lot of posts that advocate exercise as part of a training.* While I agree that adequte exercise is very important physically and psychologically for our dogs, it is not a substitute for training.* In fact, if we use exercise such as ball chasing or visits to the dog park, this may be part of the problem, not part of the solution.* Both too little and too much can be counter productive.* The old adage "A tired dog is a good dog" certainly has merit, but the type and intensity of activity does make a difference.

    Why does your dog whine?* Because she is stressed and in conflict.* If you do not address this now, this can potentially turn into leash or barrier aggression, so I would put a little effort into this.* There are two ways to address this.* First, is teaching impulse control.* There are many games that teach impulse control, including stays, the Ready, Set GO! game, Look Away games, etc.* You can also do a lot at home to teach impulse control.* She needs to understand that doors don't open, leashes don't go on, dinner doesn't hit the floor until she is sitting calmly and quietly.* Do not ask for the behaviour, simply wait until she offers it.* The first couple of days you may have to wait 1/2 an hour, but she will quickly learn that quiet, calm behaviour gets her what she wants and the more you ask for it at home, the more it will carry over into other situations.* From now on, she doesn't get out of the car, go thru a door, get her dinner, or any other reward unless she is quiet and calm.* She will then begin to learn impulse control and that good behaviour gets her what she wants.

    Second, at class, you need to bring higher value rewards (maybe some toys) or stay in a corner so she can show you calm behaviour so you can reward it.* If you clicker train, you will literally need to click twice a second the first night in order to show her what you want.* I won't go into this in detail, but send me a private message if you would like more help with this aspect.

    Now for her exercise.* Limit her fetch time and play with dogs to shorter intervals, interspersed with some training.* This will help to prevent her becoming overstressed and will further help to teach her impulse control.* * Here is a good quote from Turid Rugaas that will help you choose exercise wisely:

    “Dogs are born to save energy.
    Too much speed and they get
    stressed, because it is artificial.
    When you throw balls for your
    dog, he doesn’t run because
    he is happy, but because he
    is made by nature to react
    AUTOMATICALLY upon
    movements and rushes for
    it. This is survival, to catch
    food. We make him run
    for 50 “rabbits” which is
    completely unnatural and
    his reaction to that ball being
    thrown is the automatic button
    of hunting that goes on, it is a
    non-willed behavior.”

    It’s not the running or fetching itself which is overly stressful. Running, fetching, flyball or agility can be great. But, as with so many things, we tend to overdo it.* It is the prolonged rushing about with little or no cooling down or relaxation period where we are
    artificially creating the drive that can cause difficulty.

    Always remember that mental stimulation is just as important as physical stimulation.* To be honest, if you have a very high-drive, high energy dog, you simply can't exhaust his energy, so why bother trying?* Try tiring your dog by stressing their minds and their senses.* Take them to new places to explore.* This is certainly exciting for our dogs and a great way to stimulate them.* *Instead of playing fetch every day, some days you can have your dog retrieve still objects.* Or play scent games (of which I can give you many ideas).* Switch the activities around and make sure there is a significant rest period afterward, such as chewing on a bone.*

    The key is to find a balance between your dog’s physical exercise needs and their need for mental stimulation.* Physical and mental stimulation are crucial to dogs and important components of having a dog that behaves in the manner we would like. As in most things, you have to pay attention to your dog and their reactions. If you are seeing stress behaviors like those described above, evaluate your activities and see if you need to make some modifications.



    Dana


    To err is human:To forgive, canine."
    - Anonymous

  8. #6
    Buckyball's Avatar
    Buckyball is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Anyone else have a whiner?

    Not all dogs respond well to being thoroughly exercised before training class. I know mine doesn't. In theory it seemed like a good idea especially since it worked for other people's dogs. When I tried it out it back fired. Buck was horrible in class. It took me about a couple months to figure out just how much exercise is enough to make sure he isn't going nuts in class. He tends to get over stimulated and very frustrated if he is exercised too much before class.

    I like what Fallriver suggested. Teaching your dog impulse control. It's what my trainer asked me to do with Buck too. Just work on self control. So we have been working on that for a couple months and there is a very marked difference in him.

    Also, when Buck and I do the fetching game I do a lot of training while he is fetching. Like emergency stops. Make him sit and wait and for my cue before he chases after the ball. Just do sits and downs once he brings the ball over to me. etc etc. Followed by a 20 min break or so and then a walk around the neighborhood during which he is allowed to sniff around to his heart's content and we also do sits and downs and waits and stays proper heels etc while we walk. This tends to calm him down much better than straight 30 min non stop fetching or a strict 30 mins heel around the neighborhood.

    Oh and I definitely do not have a "routine" for him. I realised keeping him in a strict routine makes him worse! He gets bored and starts to act up and quite frankly...I get bored too :P

    Good luck!
    <3 01/01/2006-03/18/2017 <3

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    DefaultRe: Anyone else have a whiner?

    I completely agree with FallRiver about exercise. Great post.

    Although you said, "Just to note it doesn't correspond with her not getting enough exercise.* She had a really good walk, a play with another dog, and yard play today....so this isn't the problem" -- that sure would NEVER have been anywhere enough for my Puff.

    EVERY time we went to class, I had her spend at least 30 minutes of retrieving JUST BEFORE we went to class.* Throw the dummy, let her run after it and fetch it back, then repeat ad infinitum (for the 30 minutes).* That took barely enough of the fizz off.* Not that she wasn't excited seeing the other dogs but at least it was often manageable.
    While I agree with dogs needing a good amount of exercise, OWNERS create needy demanding dogs. Demanding dogs aren't born, they are made. Owners should be reasonable with the amount of exercise they give each day. For example, rather then hike 2 hours EVERY day, be flexible in your routine...have an easy going day and vary your routine so your dog doesn't come to expect __________ amount of exercise every day. Sticking to the same exercise routine every day creates "wired" needy dogs.

    I also agree that retrieving can be a mindless bore if done to much and too often. My dogs could retrieve all day if I let them. Instead, they get a couple of retrieves a day when out on our off leash walks. I only keep it to a few retrieves a day mainly for fieldwork purposes. The rest of the time they are running, sniffing and playing. The running, sniffing and playing, mentally, is a lot more tiring then playing fetch repetitively.

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    DefaultRe: Anyone else have a whiner?

    Thanks for all of your replies....

    Bob - Dee's hip are less than perfect so I'm careful about how much and what kind of exercise we do.* For her...yesterday was a more than average exercise day.....it was enough.* Short of totally wearing her out (not a good idea) I don't think more exercise would have affected her behavior in class.

    Louies Mom - Actually Dee NEVER whines in her crate.* Not even on the first night home.* She doesn't whine alot.....it's basically just when she's waiting for her dinner or when she wants to visit with another dog.

    Luna - truly more exercise is not the issue, but the learning to take "no" for an answer clearly is.*

    Fall River - To give you a better idea.....We go to classes twice a week and practise at home most days.* For the most part she has improved a great deal, but this whining is a bit of a slide backwards.* :-\* We try to go swimming often when the weather is okay....especially as this is a good low impact exercise for her.* I try to take her into alot of different situations when walking etc., plus she gets a walk in the woods every day (lots of interesting smells and different routes) for about 45 minutes to an hour and a quarter or so.* I agree that exercise (while important) is not a subsitute for training.* After all you can't "always" have a dog that is tired out from exercise, but you do want to have a dog that is always well behaved....well at least the vast majority of the time.* * We do do the things that you mentioned....making her wait to get out of the car, she knows she has to sit quietly at the door and doesn't go through doors ahead of me, and she actually won't touch her food until I tell her it's okay.* She is "always" ready to play and "has" played with a few of the dogs she has class with...so it's like she's always anticipating the prospect of playtime and I guess frustrated when it doesn't happen.* Her playtime with other dogs "is" limited due to her hips not being 100%. (we're very careful about who she plays with and for how long)* *I think she's very smart, but she's also "willful" and wants to do her own thing.* Off leash her training kind of falls apart if there are other distractions.* This is an area that I REALLY wish I could conquer!* Recall is STILL not good.* I'm not sure that I'd call her high energy.* My last Lab could have run circles around her, but at the same time was a very layed back dog.* Dee is far more rambunctious and excitable.* I'll try your suggestion of taking higher value treats to class....possibly a toy might work better.* Her biggest excitement is other dogs....and wanting to play.* She's a sweet dog and we love her to bits.* We're hoping that maturity (as well as working with her) will help settle her down.* She is very "puppy" still..... at close to two.* Thanks again for your advise.*

    Buckyball - Strangely, I've found that too.....made an extra effort exercise-wise before classes.* Another time the days exercise has been more limited and she's actually been better in class.* Doesn't make sense, but I know what you mean.* Often times she's tired "after" class for awhile....mental stimulation I guess.* * BTW - Buck is very handsome.* I was curious as to what his breeding/lines are.?

    Trickster - Yes I agree...good post Fall River.* * I agree with the rest of your post too.* Though enough and appropriate exercise is important I also think variation in activity and also in how much you do each day is important.* My dog gets bored very quickly with retrieving.* She is definitely NOT a dog that will retrieve as long as you'll keep throwing, though I did have a dog like that growing up..... and she wasn't even a retriever!* *

  11. #9
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Anyone else have a whiner?

    I certainly agree in knowing your dog and reading it's behavior.

    Exercise BEFORE our classes worked well for us.

    Puff was always (for her first 5 years) a bit hyper. When she had enough exercise
    (retrieving, swimming) she became sedate and spent most of her days resting,
    dozing, ready to be instantly on and ready to go whenever I started for the car or
    anywhere else.

    Without enough, and she would be continually pestering me with her Rhino nose
    nudging my arm or tossing it in the air as if saying, "Come on, let's play or do
    something!"

    That's eased off a lot the last 6 months or so. She's a lot more comfortable and
    relaxed -- but she still needs 2 1/2 miles of off leash retrieving in the nearby
    nature preserve plus 5-10 minutes of fetching in the afternoon.
    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

  12. #10
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Anyone else have a whiner?

    I certainly agree in knowing your dog and reading it's behavior.

    Exercise BEFORE our classes worked well for us.

    Puff was always (for her first 5 years) a bit hyper. When she had enough exercise
    (retrieving, swimming) she became sedate and spent most of her days resting,
    dozing, ready to be instantly on and ready to go whenever I started for the car or
    anywhere else.

    Without enough, and she would be continually pestering me with her Rhino nose
    nudging my arm or tossing it in the air as if saying, "Come on, let's play or do
    something!"

    That's eased off a lot the last 6 months or so. She's a lot more comfortable and
    relaxed -- but she still needs 2 1/2 miles of off leash retrieving in the nearby
    nature preserve each morning plus 5-10 minutes of fetching in the afternoon.
    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

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