I need some help
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: I need some help

  1. #1
    Destinfam5 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    379

    DefaultI need some help

    Ivy is almost 3 months old. She has a lot of commands down. She can sit, stay, lay down, shake(paw down and other paw), leave it, drop it and come. All of these things go out the window if she gets a hold of paper, my shoes or my bras (clean, btw). It's like she doesn't know what I'm saying when she has one of these items. As soon as I see her with one she gets this crazy look in her eyes, front paws spread apart, butt comes up and she starts guessing which direction I'm going to come from. I have definitely learned that chasing her doesn't work, especially since the kids think this is hysterical. Do I keep trading these items for treats? I've been getting treats and then yelling "sit! now stay" then I take the item and say drop it once she has let it out of her mouth to get her treat. Am I destined to carry treats with me at all times? I lost one beloved pair of flip flops and I don't want to lose another one. She also ruined a field trip form!

  2. Remove Advertisements
    JustLabradors.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    86

    Default

    It sounds like you have gotten your pup off to a great start with introducing various commands at this young age. The good part is she had learned how to respond to your cues but training is a lifelong process and has only just started when they are 3 months.

    You won't need to always have treats on hand but realize that simply teaching the puppy to respond to a cue in a non-distracting environment doesn't mean the puppy "knows" that he/she needs to respond to you in the same way in any type of circumstance. That is where the three D's of training come in.

    Duration, distance, and distractions. Each are taught gradually over time and it is something that is continued for the life of the dog. So yes your 3 month old puppy knows how to respond to a few cues but it will take many more months of training to get him or her to respond reliably under any circumstance.

    The best approach to take is just understand that training is a process and try to prevent your pup from getting himself in trouble. So keep those flip flops off the floor and only let your pup roam free in a puppy proofed room. If you can't watch her then use your crate until you can. Think of a young puppy as a two year old. 2 year olds "know" they shouldn't run in the street but that doesn't mean you can send them outside in the front of your yard and trust they won't run in the street when you are not right there.

    A neat trick to use when the pup gets something you don't want them to have is instead of chasing run away fast! This is a method us field trainers use to teach young pups to retrieve because puppies love to chase but have to be taught to return. By running away and making lots of silly noises, clapping hands, kissing noises etc usually the pup will come running your way. Then when you grab him you can work on teaching him the give or drop command by trading the object for a treat.

    One other thing is to try and refrain from using these cue words(sit/stay, come, etc) with your puppy when you know they won't respond. You need to set the puppy up for success. If you yell sit/stay when he is running away you are actually teaching her this cue can be ignored. With a young puppy you want them to be successful 90% of the time. So keep up the training sessions and gradually build up duration, distance, and distractions.

    Good luck and have fun!
    Deep Run Traveling "Takoda" (12/05/12)

    Deep Run Easygoing Ezekial "Zeke" (04/13/17)



  4. #3
    Destinfam5 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    379

    Default

    So you get to have puppies chase you in a field for a living? What a wonderful job! I know it's more work than that but it must be rewarding when you get the little moments of play and see a well trained dog after all your hard work.

    Thanks for the information. I never thought to have her chase me. When I play fetch with her I do something similar and she comes running so fast into my arms that she no longer has "brakes".

  5. Remove Advertisements
    JustLabradors.com
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    86

    Default

    I wish I did it for a living it is just a fun hobby for me. The chase thing seems to work really well when they're little. The first few months of puppyhood are rough ones but it does get better!

    My first few pups I raised I used to get really mad and frustrated with them. I've come a long way over the years and Takoda is now benefiting from all that I've learned. I don't even think he has seen me get mad yet, can't say the same for my other dogs. With him if he gets in one of those moods where everything in the room is more interesting then his bajillion toys then I just crate him. Him being my 4th puppy now that I've raised I have also learned by trial and error which toys keep them occupied and which don't so that helps a lot. The key thing is just a lot of patience and love and realizing puppies are a work in progress, it will be a few years before that well mannered dog appears but when it does all the hard work you do now will have paid off.
    Deep Run Traveling "Takoda" (12/05/12)

    Deep Run Easygoing Ezekial "Zeke" (04/13/17)



  7. #5
    flynbyu2's Avatar
    flynbyu2 is offline Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    64

    Default

    If you're giving a treat to get your stuff back, you're training the dog to snatch your stuff.

    A verbal ACK or NO is much preferred. Obviously, when the front paws spread out and the butt goes up, the dog is saying "PLAYTIME!". Whatever you do, don't reward bad behavior.

    Try turning your back and ignoring the dog. In dog lingo it means you're not interested.
    Anybody who doesn't know what soap tastes like never washed a dog. ~Franklin P. Jones

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    86

    Default

    Yelling ack or no can scare them or excite them which in my opinion is not the reaction you want from such a young puppy.

    Timing is everything in training. If you were to offer the treat immediately when the puppy picked up the wrong item then yes you are rewarding them for picking up things. However in her situation the pup grabs something then runs away. When she catches the pup whatever she rewards or scolds at that point is no longer related to the act of the pup snatching the item in the first place.

    There are a chain of behaviors happening here and although it seems like one action to us(my puppy grabs my stuff and won't give it back) for a puppy it is not just one event. There are a series of behaviors: 1. The Grab 2. The carry 3. The Chase or Retreat 4. The release. You can use positive or negative re-enforcement after any of these events if you are quick enough but they are 4 distinct behaviors for the puppy. The last behavior in the chain happens when either the pup returns to you or you catch the pup. Whatever you scold or reward at that point has nothing to do with the first behavior in the chain of events.

    If you were to grab the puppy, say no, and then pry the item out of its mouth you are essentially training the puppy that when it comes to you(if it came) or it is caught by you, you scold it(provided it understands the cue "no" or ack") and then snatch the item. If however the puppy comes to you and you reward it with a treat immediately you are rewarding the action of the pup coming to you. The other option is to let the pup return to you and allow him to hold the item for a few seconds. If you then offer the treat in exchange for the item you are no longer rewarding the pup coming back to you but you are now rewarding him releasing the item to you. In either scenario the treat you give at the end of the chain of behaviors is enforcing the very last behavior in the chain and not the initial behavior(ie grabbing the flip flop). The positive(treat/praise) or negative("no"/"ack" cue) enforcement for the act of grabbing the flip flop would have to given exactly at the moment the pup grabs the sandal in order for the pup to relate that action to the enforcement used. You could essentially set the pup up to time this right but under normal everyday situations the puppy usually grabs and starts to run so quick that you miss the opportunity to address that first behavior.

    A lot of times this timing is missed and because retriever puppies are born with that instinct to grab and carry many people spend the first few months of their lives chasing them and snatching things from their mouths and inadvertently teaching them that coming to you is not fun. Then a few months down the road when the puppy is 5 or 6 months old folks wonder why a puppy will not come when called not realizing that they spent the first few months of the pups life teaching it that coming to you is not always a good thing.
    Last edited by awackywabbit; 04-12-2013 at 02:06 AM.
    Deep Run Traveling "Takoda" (12/05/12)

    Deep Run Easygoing Ezekial "Zeke" (04/13/17)



  9. #7
    dstyer65 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    671

    Default

    I really like the advice here. awackywabbit, what you say definitely makes a lot of sense. I have the same issues w/ my 3 month old. I am going to try what you say. It will help with training to come and training to give things to you. Thanks!
    Todd, Yellow Lab, 1/4/13
    Mr. Utley, Welsh Corgi, 2/20/02

  10. #8
    BigBrownDog is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    11,990

    Default

    The posture you describe is called a Play Bow - she is inviting you to play. This is all a game to her. Its FUN when you chase her.

    What you need to do is teach her "give it" and "leave it". You also need to work harder at puppy proofing your house so that she can't get shoes or clothing or important papers.
    Sharon, Blaise and Diesel.

  11. #9
    Dog Paddle is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    476

    Default

    I found saving my yelling voice for DROP IT when they had something precious to me or dangerous to them (which happened pretty darn infrequently because I was careful) worked very well to shock the little monsters into complying.

    Plus I did and do give a treat in exchange for contraband. BUT, a big but, my pups have not been chewers. Once I recognized that they were taking stuff to get a treat I changed the game. Now they had to bring the item to me and give it to me. I found if I ignored them my gloves or socks or whatever did not get chewed or eaten but believe me I did a lot of watching to be sure. Now I am sure the glove drying out on the hot air register is taken in a effort to solicit a game or some attention and often such is due, I've been working on something too long without a break, so we take one. Or it means it's time to go for a walk and usually it is. Works for us but I can sure see how it wouldn't if yours chews and/or swallows.

  12. #10
    Destinfam5 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    379

    Default

    I agree about the dog not knowing the first action has to do with the reaction in the end. This is why I am "rewarding" her when she comes back. I learned with my first dog that if you make them think there's a punishment involved with "come" then you'll end up with 5 neighbors helping you catch a 1yr old lab hoping she doesn't get hit by a car. I'm hoping to never experience that again! Actually, over the past few days we've been working really hard on "come" and the awesome reaction she gets out of me seems to be doing it because it's working every time. I'm just going to keep at it.

    Sharon- I think I need to puppy proof my children... They're way too old to not know better but it's a never ending process with them, too.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25