A "bad" Approach...works?
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Thread: A "bad" Approach...works?

  1. #1
    amandajean1's Avatar
    amandajean1 is offline Member
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    DefaultA "bad" Approach...works?

    so i basically just wanted some opinions on this.

    As most of you probably know by know I have had Maggie since she was 6 weeks old. she is 13 weeks now. She became a real biter and we were doing the passive "no bite" and closing her mouth for a minute approach. That didn't work. She got kind of of vicious...so I ended up pressing her lips to her teeth and having her really feel it....after 2 days of consistently doing it every time her teeth brushed mine skin she's all but quit, she never aggressively bites anymoer, just on accident and she always stops immediately.

    So we've had some potty issues. she pees and poos outside fine, she knows she's supposed to go there. so never goes in her crate, up to 6 hours at times. but after taking her outside and her going, she would piss inside. my boyfriend who raises her with me says he thought she was doing it for attention...I said no no no, and started giving her the huge reward every time she piddled outside.....but she continued to have accidents inside.

    a couple of days ago while i was at work all day my boyfriend watched her. When I got home he told me that he watchd her al day, took her outside and played with her after she went to the bathroom and then when he turned his back on her for 5 minutes she pissed on the floor. he went after her in a very aggressive approach....i would have to say that old "barbic" way that we are now told is a hugggeee no no. then he took her outside, she didn't go, and he put her in time out.

    later on that evening, after he took her out and let her go and then played with her she was running around in front of him. she literally looked straight at him and crouched and pissed. he went after her again in the aggresive manner.

    after that. she has yet to have an accident. so although i KNOW we should take a more passive approach...is it possible that this i a more dominant dog and we literally have to take the more aggressive approach to get through to her that we are not kidding around and whatnot.

    It worked for her....she didn't turn into a cowering or aggressive pup because of it, but she did stop piddling for attention or to "try us". and considering it worked with the biting as well.....

    so basically i am just looking for thoughts. feedback. points of view. experience. yada yada.

    amanda
    Maggie - August 20, 2009


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    riley is offline Junior Member
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    Hey Amanda,

    From reading other folks posts it sounds like Maggie was submissive peeing in front of your bf. Again, going off of others it may just be a phase and lots of pups do it. Whether you should be more aggressive, I don't know as we are still in week 7 and things are going well with the calm approach. Riley did do the pee in the house thing right after coming inside when we first got her but the last few she has been good. She also seems to give really good cues to us like going right to the door when she is done with her business. When she continues to mill around in the yard I know she is still looking for the right spot.

    Maybe try searching for submissive in this forum and see if those posts come up for more reading until someone with more experience comes along.

    By the way, Maggie is adorable!!
    Melissa
    Riley at 7 weeks

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    amandajean1's Avatar
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    i can see why just from my post you thought it was a submissive act...but I have never seen this pup make a submissive act. It was more of a defiant act to me. i have seen her do it before. the look she gives is defiant and haughty, like "I know I am not supposed to, but I am going to, just to get you riled up and get some attention from you". So we felt like we needed to put a negative result/attention with the act, rather than the nuetral reaction we were giving her. make sense? which is why i didn't get mad when he told me what he did, i agreed that she needed some negative reinforcement with the act of pissing inside instead of just "ignore the act and take her outside" we had been doing.
    Maggie - August 20, 2009


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    riley is offline Junior Member
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    Gotcha. Sorry about the mix-up
    Melissa
    Riley at 7 weeks

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    BigBrownDog is offline Senior Member
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    Puppies don't pee in defiance. Have you had her checked for a UTI?
    Sharon, Blaise and Diesel.

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    kaytris is offline Senior Member
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    She's now been intimidated enough that she won't pee in front of you/bf in the house. That may or may not mean she's housetrained - and you may also see this spill over outside, where she won't pee in front of you outside.

    And she's not being dominant or spiteful, she's a baby with little bladder control.

    Pick up a copy of Jean Donaldson's "Culture Clash" and either of Patricia McConnell's books (for the Love of a dog and OTher end of the leash)

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    amandajean1's Avatar
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    she pees just fine outside, always has, and continues too. and UTI checked. no issue there. maybe she's not being defiant...but how does she manage to hold it for 6 hours in her crate, where she has plenty of room to pee in the corner if she wanted, yet not hold it the 5 seconds it take to walk to the door. She will walk to the door and sit there for a few minutes until we come let her out, when she feels like it.
    Maggie - August 20, 2009


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    brody's Avatar
    brody is offline Senior Member
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    dogs are not defiant - puppies and babies of all species certainly aren't

    punishment works but it does not lay a foundation of trust that more advanced work can be built on

    positive training is NOT passive
    http://andrea-agilityaddict.blogspot.com/

    “I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.” H. Keller

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    BigBrownDog is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by amandajean1 View Post
    she pees just fine outside, always has, and continues too. and UTI checked. no issue there. maybe she's not being defiant...but how does she manage to hold it for 6 hours in her crate, where she has plenty of room to pee in the corner if she wanted, yet not hold it the 5 seconds it take to walk to the door. She will walk to the door and sit there for a few minutes until we come let her out, when she feels like it.
    The entire concept behind using a crate is that the dog views it as their den and will not soil their den. If it is the right size - they will only pee in there under extreme duress (like if they have a UTI or diareah).

    Puppies don't extrapolate their "den" to the whole household without training and time. Thus - a puppy who can hold it for a long time in the crate will not try so hard out of the crate. Make sense?
    Sharon, Blaise and Diesel.

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    Samson is offline Senior Member
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    Dylan was still having peeing accidents inside the house at 6 months old - still does when he is extra excited.

    Patience and training but definitely not this - "he went after her in a very aggressive approach"

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