Just wondering. How many use training collars with their dogs, what kind and how long have you been using them?
Martingale collar or frontclip harness.
There's no such thing as a 100% positive trainer, by the way. (Speaking as a primarily positive reinforcement based trainer - the withdrawal or absence of rewards, time outs, withdrawal of attention, etc - it is still a "correction" , just not a physical one
I use the e-collar for outdoor recall only. All HK occassionally needs is the tone. With the e-collar on, she just listens so much better. I seldom have the transmitter with me.
Hershey Kisses, In charge of getting Ed out to the dog park so that he gets some exercise.
I have martingales and prongs for my boys. And ditto what Kaytris said - positive training does not exclude negative reinforcement. I don't do collar corrections.
Sharon, Blaise and Diesel.
I have used all of the above (exept 100% positive) with my various fosters. I have learned to never say never, it all depends on the dog and the situation. Different tools work for different dogs (and owners). I leave the prong for "last resort" - I usually start with a martingale. If that doesn't work I will try a no-pull harness/head halter then the prong. Though I have only used the prong on my reactive fosters (it has less to do with size as they were smaller but they lost total control when they reacted).
Rocky gets just a martingale at this point. I use a pager for offleash recall at times (pager vibrates, not shock)
Charlie (foster) and Rocky
I am a trainer and I consider myself 100% positive. I do use lures at the beginning but they are replaced with something positive like praise or playing so I don't see anything negative about that. I do know that some dogs may require more for training purposes and especially for hunting.
Has anyone read the book "Control Unleashed"? It is an excellent read.
I train for hunting/national level hunt tests/field trials, and do not believe there is such a thing as 100% positive, either. I have seen way too many "positive" trainers using "physical" adversives, including voice and posture to believe this is possible. Even a leash represents pressure to some degree. I have great respect for anyone who tries to be as "positive" as possible, I do that myself and am always trying to learn a "better way." I use a slip lead more than a choke chain (less traumatic on the trachea) and a variable intensity e-collar in what field trainers call "basics" but is really much more advanced stuff than basic OB, which should never require an e-collar. I have found nothing yet that allows the timing and precision in stimulus of a variable intensity e-collar to reinforce a known command at a distance as necessary in hunt test and field trial training. I "nick" on the lowest setting that gets a response rather than use a continuous stimulation. I also am a fan of indirect pressure with the e-collar as opposed to direct pressure or a "cold burn" the dog does not understand. I never correct for confusion (that's my fault) or simple mistakes, but only for lack of effort or the very rare defiance. After the dog has been through collar conditioning and basics, you very seldom need "the button" but when you need it, you need it NOW to get the temporal relationship of the correction and the action corrected for across to the dog. I personally do not use a prong, as I could never get them to fit right, am afraid I would hurt a dog without it fitting right, and cringe when I see dogs in a prong being yanked around (like folks, including me, cringe when they see an e-collar abused by a neanderthal). I guess I have never had that much trouble teaching a dog to heel (knock on wood very hard).
Last edited by GulfCoast; 10-12-2010 at 10:30 PM.
HRCH Ellie Mae MH CGC
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Most of the time my dogs do not even have collars on in everyday life and when we are training obedience, only when we are at class. I do use the prong (and flat collar) initially when doing obedience
For hunt training though they do wear ecollars, for training come, FF, FTP and whistle sits, and in mild corrections for the madrid of things can happen when the dog is 20-100 yards away from you!
Karen and the gang
BBI Kodi's Journey To Anotch (Journey)
BBI Kodi's Blackpowder Striker (Flint)
I don't train for hunting but know that e-collars are necessary for hunting. Belle's mom, my dog doesn't wear collars at home either.... I know it doesn't but I just think how good it must feel for him off..and so it goes :-)
Last edited by OhioAirDogs; 10-12-2010 at 10:34 PM.
Point taken. I know if I just look at my dog when he does something wrong with a sour look he cringes like I beat him to death. So yes, that can be considered a correction. I guess what i can say is I train 100% with no physical pain or discomfort correction.I have seen way too many "positive" trainers using "physical" adversives, including voice and posture to believe this is possible. Even a leash represents pressure to some degree.