A few Novice questions
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Thread: A few Novice questions

  1. #1
    AngusFangus is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultA few Novice questions

    1) On the stand for exam, I can give both a hand signal and a verbal, right?

    2) Also on stand, after I give the command, is it OK to press on his shoulders and hips before I tell him to stay and leave him?

    3) If he moves one foot on the stand, is it an NQ?

    4) On down stays, if he rolls from one hip to the other, how big of a deduction is that?

    5) Is it legal give a second heel command if I need to?

    6) Can I do anything I want with him between exercises? Like, if I wanted to warm up for the figure eight by doing some backwards 360s? Or doing a figure eight before I get into the "official" the figure eight?

    7) What if he gets up on the down or sit stay? Do I go get him or wait for the steward to do that?

    TIA!


    Connie and "The Boys":
    Angus, Yellow Lab, CGC, RE, CD
    Simon, d.b.a. Flat Coated Retriever, CGC, RE, CD

    Gone ahead, but forever in my heart:
    Crash, Pit Bull x Rottweiler x Golden Retriever

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    DefaultRe: A few Novice questions

    I have found that the answer to a lot of your questions is "depends on the judge."

    Most judges will allow one extra heel command. Most judges will allow you to stack the dog, and press LIGHTLY on the dog- they are very particular about lightly.

    About between exercises- you need to move very efficiently between exercises. There is no "warm up time" in the ring. Plus, some judges will get really annoyed if they think you are dawdling- the AKC wants them to do novice dogs at three minutes per dog.

    Also, watch anything that could be perceived as training in the ring- if I were a judge and saw someone doing a warm up figure eight and then the figure eight- I would be thinking pretty hard about dinging them for training in the ring- and you do not want to make judges think.


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    patm is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: A few Novice questions

    I'm going to answer the best I can with all my wise information, garnered from getting 1 CD on 1 dog so far :P

    1. Yes
    2. You can touch the dog while you tell him to stand, but after you stand back up in the heel position you can't touch him - you stand in heel position, give the command/and or signal and walk away about 6 feet and turn back around to face the dog.
    3. I don't think that moving one foot is an NQ, but I don't know what kind of deduction it would be.
    4. I don't know how big a deduction moving from one hip to another would be either - I have a feeling it depends on the judge.
    5. In Novice A, I was told that you can give 1 extra heel command during your heeling patterns (not the figure 8.) I always saved my extra heel command for when I needed it, but I used it in every show. We scored in the low 90's, so that wasn't too bad. No judge ever said they took off for the second command.
    6. I wouldn't do any of that stuff in the ring - I have a feeling it would be considered training in the ring. I would pet Emilu and praise her lightly, but we stayed pretty much in "show form". I had her heel from place to place, just so she would know we were still working. If you have a "calming thing" (like taking a drink from your hidden flask in your back pocket), you could do that (just kidding about the flask - you knew that - right? - I meant the dog - maybe a little "touch my hand" thing. Emilu and I didn't really have anything like that.
    7. The judge should tell the group what they want you to do about a dog that gets up. Sometimes they have the steward do something. Sometimes they have you go quietly to your dog and have them sit right where they are while you stand there - it varies. Just look to the judge for direction if it happens.

    And might I add - I can't wait to hear how you do - GOOD LUCK!!!!

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    DefaultRe: A few Novice questions

    Quote Originally Posted by patm
    5. In Novice A, I was told that you can give 1 extra heel command during your heeling patterns (not the figure 8.) I always saved my extra heel command for when I needed it, but I used it in every show. We scored in the low 90's, so that wasn't too bad. No judge ever said they took off for the second command.
    I think one of the judges briefing us said it was 1-3 points off the first time you gave an extra command, NQ the second time. I think it really is the judge on whether or not they do it or not though.


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    patm is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: A few Novice questions

    Also remember, each time you halt during your heeling patterns, you can say their name and tell them to heel again when you start forward.

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    DefaultRe: A few Novice questions


    1) On the stand for exam, I can give both a hand signal and a verbal, right?

    Yes. One other little known fact is that the dog does not have to start in a sitting position for the stand for exam. Many times after the F8 I would simply leave Murray standing right where we finished the F8 and the judge would start the exercise. I only had one judge insist that the dog be sitting so rather than argue, I just asked Murray to sit. No big deal.

    2) Also on stand, after I give the command, is it OK to press on his shoulders and hips before I tell him to stay and leave him?

    Yes BEFORE you say stay. Once you say "stay" you cannot touch the dog. Also, make sure you are standing in heel position before you say stay and when you return to heel position. No sense losing points you don't need to.

    3) If he moves one foot on the stand, is it an NQ?

    No. Just points.

    4) On down stays, if he rolls from one hip to the other, how big of a deduction is that?

    Depends on the judge. If he simply adjusts himself by rolling over on one hip one time...most likely no pts. If he continually rolls back and forth he may get hit with a few points. Sniffing can also be a source of lost points.

    5) Is it legal give a second heel command if I need to?

    Yes. Some judges will even let you give 2 before NQing. A 2nd command is 3-5 pts so use the extra command wisely. If the dog is lagging slightly but still with you, do not give the 2nd command. If the dog is 10' behind you or on the wrong side, give the command because the dog is obviously not heeling at that point.

    6) Can I do anything I want with him between exercises? Like, if I wanted to warm up for the figure eight by doing some backwards 360s? Or doing a figure eight before I get into the "official" the figure eight?

    No, that's called training in the ring. You need to move quickly between exercises. You can heel between exercises. You can touch the dog, even lightly lead by the collar in novice only. You can touch the dog and get him to jump up or similar but the judge is not going to wait while you break out your rally moves.

    7) What if he gets up on the down or sit stay? Do I go get him or wait for the steward to do that?

    You stay put. The judge will tell you if wants you to get the dog. Generally if the dog just changes position (sit to down or stand, etc) no one will touch the dog. If the dog looks like it will interfere with another dog, the judge or steward will get the dog. If the dog is going to you, the judge will ask you to stay where you are and hold the dog. FYI, the new policy is that if a dog leaves the line up on the sit for any reason, they will be excused for the down. This is a new policy for safety reasons.

    Now, if this is an AKC show, the judge will hold a briefing before class. Please attend this (without the dog). The judge will explain all the procedures, where he wants you to set up, show you the heeling patttern and allow you to walk it, and allow you to ask any questions. They didn't do this when I was in Novice. I think it's a great idea so the exhibitors realize the judge is just a person, not some big scary person.

    Also, make sure you read the obedience rules/regulations and understand the principle parts of each exercise (your signature on your entry says that you have already done this ). These are the only things that will cause you to flunk if you don't perform them. For example, on the recall, the principle part of the exercise is that the dog stay where left and come when called. If the dog sits or lays down, it is just points. If the dog does a drive by straight into heel position on the recall, it's just points. If the dog fronts but doesn't finish, its just points. Do not give a 2nd command or it will be an NQ.

    I always review this website before a show. http://clubs.akc.org/saints/Archives/newsroom.htm About 3/4 down the page "dog talk articles". Definitely read Novice at a minimum. These articles are written by an obedience judge and they are an excellent review before going in the ring.




  9. #7
    AngusFangus is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: A few Novice questions

    Man, you guys are the best! Thank you!!!!

    To clarify, I wasn't planning to do a big Rally display or anything. ;D I was just thinking of doing a couple of moves to keep him interested while we moved from place to place - in particular, setting up for the Figure Eight. I can see now that doing a Figure Eight before the actual one would be considered training - thanks!! I'm glad I asked. I never really knew what "training in the ring" meant, exactly. I didn't know if that counted between exercises.

    I have one trainer who preaches about moving around with your dog until everybody is out there and in position and ready for the Figure Eight. She is trying to instill in us not to get up there and be standing, waiting for the stewards to become posts. But I guess this just needs to be heeling around, right? No fancy moves or backwards anything.


    Connie and "The Boys":
    Angus, Yellow Lab, CGC, RE, CD
    Simon, d.b.a. Flat Coated Retriever, CGC, RE, CD

    Gone ahead, but forever in my heart:
    Crash, Pit Bull x Rottweiler x Golden Retriever

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    AngusFangus is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: A few Novice questions

    Oh, and that's bad news for us about sniffing being lost points.


    Connie and "The Boys":
    Angus, Yellow Lab, CGC, RE, CD
    Simon, d.b.a. Flat Coated Retriever, CGC, RE, CD

    Gone ahead, but forever in my heart:
    Crash, Pit Bull x Rottweiler x Golden Retriever

  11. #9
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    DefaultRe: A few Novice questions

    In between exercises, I do the "Touch my hand" kind of thing, asking Kodi to jump up and touch my hand. It keeps her focused on me and gets her revved up (as opposed to being a slug as Belle used to be). Also it makes ME pay attention to the dog, as I was very guilty of not paying attention to the dog and loosing their attention in between exercises. (I learned a lot about what NOT to do with Belle!)

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    DefaultRe: A few Novice questions

    The biggest mistake in novice is usually when a dog slows down or lags during heeling the handler slows down and looks back at the dog. The slower you go the more the dog lags. If Angus lags speed up slightly and Angus should speed up to catch you. If Angus lags during the on leash section just keep looking straight ahead and keep your hand (with the leash) locked to you and if he hits the end of the leash you just keep right on going like it never happened. You cannot correct your dog in the ring but he can correct himself.
    Between the exercises you won't have time to do anything except get ready for the next exercise. I line Amber up for the next exercise as soon as we are finished with the last one. I cannot praise Amber between exercises or she would come unglued and buzz the ring. I treat the whole individual as one giant 3 minute exercise. You have a perfect 200 when you enter the ring, so don't spend anymore time in the place where you can lose points than you have to. Before we start each exercise I look at Amber and decide if she is paying attention to me and if she is sitting in a perfect straight heel position, if not I circle her back around and get a straight sit or take a half step forward to get a straight sit. When the judge asks if I am ready I say "Ready!" quite loud and this causes Amber to focus on me if she isn't already. I give a louder than normal "Amber Heel!" And step out quickly. I would rather lose that initial 1/2 or 1 pt on a lag at the start and have Amber try hard not to lose me for the rest of the pattern, then to have her think it is just another slow walk.
    In the groups I heel Amber into the ring, we don't just walk or stroll. I often pause at the gate entrance so I can heel at my normal speed without running up on others. I make sure I get a perfect sit in heel position or circle her around again. I do not release Amber from the sit after the exercise I wait in heel position till the judge gives the down command. After the down I return back to heel position and wait for the exercise finished comand from the judge then step back and pick up the leash and number and put it back on Amber. Then I take a heeling step forward and wait while the judge walks by and says who comes back or not for awards.
    Once we are outside of the ring we celebrate like there is no tomorrow but never do we celebrate in a ring. Amber would buzz the ring if she had a chance so I have to be calnm and confident the whole time we are in there.

    Kelly and Amber

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