Uh, another obedience class question...
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Thread: Uh, another obedience class question...

  1. #1
    henrysmom is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultUh, another obedience class question...

    ... so I found a training school for Henry (Western Lakes Training Club of Buffalo). I've been emailing their training co-ordinator and asking questions about classes etc. I happened to ask what type of lead/collar they require for class, and she said they use a "choke chain type collar".

    Uh... (forgive my newbie-ness) is this pretty much standard?? ???

    (I've only ever trained Henry on a flat collar...)

    Gorsebrook Jackson Triggs, CD, RN, WC, CGN<br />Kelrobin A Twist of Fate<br /><br />

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    ObedienceLabs4Me is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Uh, another obedience class question...

    20 some years ago when I began it was the norm. Now, many dogs, thanks to the understanding of food motivation and dogs, are successfully trained on a buckle/flat collar. What will work for one might not for another. I don't require my beginner students to have a choke chain. I have no problem if they want to try with the buckle collar and food. But, some people do still require. In fact, many people compete with a bucke/flat collar.
    Susan
    UCDX GRCH Dunn's Marsh Caleb of Waltona UDX3, OM3, RAE Canadian UD, RE
    FallRiver's Micah of Waltona GN RAE, Canadian CD, RN

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    henrysmom is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Uh, another obedience class question...

    Am I going to offend her if I ask if I can train him on a flat collar and food?

    Does this necessarily mean that this particular school is more physical correction vs. positive reinforcement?

    I think I understand the premise behind the choke type collar (quick correction, it's the sound that actually does the correcting?? vs the "choking" of the chain?) but I also know that Henry won't do well with that. He's so sensitive that if I even raise my voice, he does the oh-crap-ear-pinny-back-butt-wiggle thing.

    On the other hand, working for food?? He's all over that!!
    Gorsebrook Jackson Triggs, CD, RN, WC, CGN<br />Kelrobin A Twist of Fate<br /><br />

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    SamIAm's Avatar
    SamIAm is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Uh, another obedience class question...

    Sam has been exposed to a variety of collars and types of training. The Advanced class we are in now is a choke chain. His heeling class was a choke chain. The CGC prep class was flat collar, clickers and treats. He's worn a prong, and a martingale. And a gentle leader. Of all of them the one he seems to dislike is the gentle leader. His whole demeanor changes. Head droops, and enthusiam wanes!
    He seems to learn something new quickest with the clicker and food.
    But he is not bothered by any of the others. the choke chain is the least favorite for me. I don't think I am good at making corrections with it, and I worry about damage to his throat.
    the absolute best reinforcement for him that I've found and that he will work the hardest for is throwing the ball. I read that someone (I think it's Raian) has a dog like that and she tucks the ball under her arm while training and throws it from time to time. that works really well with Sam, altho he never seems to forget it's there, and his excitement level is hard to work around or with sometimes!

    Frances

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    Canyon Labradors's Avatar
    Canyon Labradors is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Uh, another obedience class question...

    I wouldn't stress the collar. Too bad you asked, I would have just brought the dog into training the first day with whatever collar he wears and started training. All the classes I have taken don't "require" a special collar. If you are having problems, the instructor might suggest a different one, but never has anything been required.

    I usually use a choke on my dogs. Why? I actually don't keep collars on my dogs. They have martingales (with tags) I slip on them when we go hiking etc. but normal every day, they don't wear collars. I use chokes to walk them and to train them because each has one that's attached to their lead, and it gets slipped over their head and that't is. No buckling, no fussing. It's just easier for me and it's all attached.

    But I am also not really the type to worry about if the collar is mean or whatever. I use the collar that works on the dog and gets the deed accomplished...be it a flat-buckle, choke, pinch or e-colllar. I don't really worry about damaging the dogs throat. Simple moderate corrections that any of us would do isn't going to damage the dog.

  8. #6
    ObedienceLabs4Me is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Uh, another obedience class question...

    Quote Originally Posted by henrysmom
    Am I going to offend her if I ask if I can train him on a flat collar and food?

    Does this necessarily mean that this particular school is more physical correction vs. positive reinforcement?


    No, it does mean that the training philosophy is more adversion rather than food motivation but I would ask. There are some trainers out there who still do all yank and jerk training.

    As for the offense--my pastor said something one Sunday morning that really made me think and the more I thought about it, it is true. If I accidently offend someone (not proposefully mind you) then it is that person's problem not mine and they have an area in their lives that needs to be worked on. Does that make sense. Understand one thing about me--I believe I personally should never stop growing, learning, and seeking to gain healing in any area that I need it in, even if I don't realize it. Ok? So, if I am offended by somone, then it shows an area I need to work on. If I accidently offend someone, I can't be all that concerned about it because it is their problem and I don't want to take on their problem--I have enough of my own! So, with that said, I would just ask the question and find out the answer. You might be surprised and it won't be a problem. I tell my new beginner's they can train on what they want except for a harness. I personally have used buckle collars, pinches, choke chains. nylon slip collars, etc. They all have their purpose and place.
    Susan
    UCDX GRCH Dunn's Marsh Caleb of Waltona UDX3, OM3, RAE Canadian UD, RE
    FallRiver's Micah of Waltona GN RAE, Canadian CD, RN

    www.labmed.org


  9. #7
    patm's Avatar
    patm is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Uh, another obedience class question...

    We have always used a chain collar (not choke ) for training. It doens't choke them at all (unless you just keep pulling on it, which is incorrect of course). Emilu is also very sensitive if I raise my voice, but the choke didn't affect her at all - so much so that when I went to advanced obdience the instructor put her in a small, correctly fitted prong collar. I don't have any trouble with prong collars (use one very successfully on Skippy for trips out in public), but hadn't used one on Emilu because I knew that you couldn't use them in showing. But at this training club, they start most dogs out on prongs. They are very positively oriented, with some gentle corrections. (except that ear pinch thing) The prong worked much better for training than the chain ever did on Emilu - but I knew I had to wean her from it for any kind of showing, so one day I just ditched it. She does fine now. I bought a nice rolled leather collar for showing, but will probably never use it - I decided to use the chain for now. However, if Henry does well with the flat collar, I see no reason for using something else.

  10. #8
    kaytris is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Uh, another obedience class question...

    Can you go observe a class before signing up?

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    3TailsWaggin is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Uh, another obedience class question...

    I would go and observe a class and see if it's the type of training and class you are looking for.

    I have used all kinds of collars for training.

    I show in a "chain choke" collar. I rarely use the collar for correction, I just happen to like the collar... it's more durable than a flat buckle collar (Ruger as Magnum's fancy rolled leather collar.. all 18" of it... and pooped and puked it out in pieces for almost three weeks, I kid you not).

    I have also used the prong collar to train.

    It all depends on what I'm training, who I'm training, and the results I am or am not getting.

    I don't use a lot of food in my training... Ruger is much more "ball" oriented. Magnum also is NOT food motivated. But I allow students I teach to use ANY method available to them to get the desired results.

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