Repeating stations in Rally - update -additional question on retry
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Thread: Repeating stations in Rally - update -additional question on retry

  1. #1
    patm's Avatar
    patm is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRepeating stations in Rally - update -additional question on retry

    Thanks for all your replies - one more question - if you do re-try a station - where do you retry it from - do you take your dog all the way back to before the station, walk up to it and do it again? No more questions - I promise!

    How do you know if you should repeat a station in Rally? If you miss a station and realize it before you get to the next one, should you go back and do the one you missed? if you did really crappy on one, or your dog didn't do it at all, should you repeat it. How can you tell if you should repeat a* station (and do you go back and walk up to it again?) or if you should just take you deductions?

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    imported_Belles mom is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Repeating stations in Rally

    If you completely miss a station BUT realize your mistake before you get to the next station, by all means, go back and do the missed station. You will NQ if you do not! If you have already started the next station...it is too late to go back and you have "donated" your money and NQ'd!)

    You can try to do a station three times (two retrys at it). Each unsucessful attempt at it costs 3 points. However, doing a station incorrectly once and moving on can cost you 10 points. So, I'd attempt to retry a station and take a three to nine point deduction (depending on how many retrys and assuming that I do it correctly in the end) as opposed to taking a 10 point deduction for doing it wrong once and moving on. Make sense? Hard to explain.

    At least with me, I am not always aware that I have done a station wrong, so I get hit with a 10 point deduction. When I do realize I muffed up I will always retry it (twice if need be).
    Karen and<br />UAG1 SHR UCDX GRCH Tracker Belle of Bedford RAE JH CDX TT WCX WC CGC (Belle)<br /><br />UCD SHR GRCH BIMBS BBI Belle&#39;s Kodiak Dreamweaver JH UD RAE TT WC CGC (Kodi)<br /><br />SHR UCH BBI Ponderosa&#39;s Big Blond Guy JH RE TT WC CGC (Hoss)

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    ObedienceLabs4Me is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Repeating stations in Rally

    The only time I go back and repeat a station is when I have done it incorrectly. Example my very first run I did a finish to the left instead of to the right and when back and did it correctly. It was 3 points off instead of 10.
    Susan
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    FallRiver's Micah of Waltona GN RAE, Canadian CD, RN

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    rottnlabs is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Repeating stations in Rally

    IMO, do not repeat a station unless you miss it completely or you (or the dog) does it incorrectly (incorrectly does not mean imperfectly).* If the dog attempts the station but does not sit straight for example, you are only talking about a 1 pt deduction for out of position whereas if you retry you get an automatic 3 pts plus any penalties (another crooked sit with add another 1 pt for example).* Coming from traditional obedience,* I'm a perfectionist so this was really hard for me to learn but I learned it the hard way.

    A real life example that happened to me and one of my friends at separate trials was the advanced level halt, call front, finish left (or right).* You can't move your feet on this exercise so when I called Murray front, he sat perpendicular to me (making a T of sorts).* In my mind,* it would have been an IP because he wasn't facing front (even though he was in front of me) so we retried it for a 3 pt penalty.* Afterwards the judge told me I should have just taken the 1 pt hit for out of position rather than the 3 pts for the retry.* The difference is I thought it was a 10 IP (no front) vs a 1 pt OOP. The judge felt that the dog "attempted" to front so that's why she said it was 1 pt OOP. This is the exact same scenario that happened to my friend at a later tiral and that judge told her the same thing.*

    Now if your dog sits crooked then finishes the wrong direction (left instead of right for example)...that would be an IP and you would get hit with 11 pts (1 for the crooked sit and 10 for the IP) or maybe just 10...there has been some debate about whether you can lose more than 10 pts per station.* Some judges only take 10 and some keep adding up the pts. Anyway, that is a case where you would want to retry the station which erases all the previous pts and starts you over with 3.

    It really requires a thorough knowledge of the rules and pts in order to make an educated guess about whether or not to repeat a station but my motto is if you attempt to do the exercise, do not repeat it unless it was done completely incorrectly.

    Just thought of one more thing in case you weren't aware. You don't want to retry a station more than twice. Each retry is 3 pts. So while the first retry erases any pts you accumulated for that station, the second retry erases all the pts EXCEPT the original 3 pt for the 1st retry. By the 3rd retry you are already at 9 pts for the station and an IP would have only been 10. I've also read that AKC was going to change the rule (not sure if they have yet or not) to only allow 2 retries. Also, when you get to the advanced level classes, you can not retry the jumps. You only get 1 shot at them so make it a good one.
    <br /><br />Lydia, Murray &amp; Essy in AZ<br /><br />Clear Creek&#39;s Mad About You CDX RE NJP OAP OFP ASCA CDX GSN RSN NGC TGO TNO OAC NJC HPN PS1 JHE<br /><br />Larkspur&#39;s Essence RE NAC TNN JHE

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    AngusFangus is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Repeating stations in Rally - update -additional question on retry

    These are really great questions, Pat! Thanks for asking. I had been meaning to ask about these things too. I am very interested in all the responses.

    The "judge" at the Show n Go in Chattanooga told me that if I was going to make a retry, to make a pretty big deal of it...step back and re-approach the station.

    But here's what I wondered (and Lydia just answered this, I think): Like, if Angus sat crooked at heel, that would just be a 1 pt deduction, so I should not retry.

    Let me ask about the Moving Down, cause I can tell you that's where we're going to have problems: What if Angus does a sit first, then a down? Or, what if he downs, but is positioned right in front of me? I will of course try to avoid both these things, but hypothetically, is this a retry, or should I just take 1 pt?

    I guess what I'm asking is, where is the line between incorrectly performed and out of position? I guess it varies too much between exercises to explain huh?

    Am I making any sense at all? I feel like I'm babbling today!


    Connie and "The Boys":
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    Canyon Labradors's Avatar
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    DefaultRe: Repeating stations in Rally - update -additional question on retry

    I have a feeling the sit into the down would count more against you than an down in an inappropriate place. I think that if he lays infront of you, it's probably a few points off like a crooked sit...

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    rottnlabs is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Repeating stations in Rally - update -additional question on retry

    Quote Originally Posted by AngusFangus
    Let me ask about the Moving Down, cause I can tell you that's where we're going to have problems: What if Angus does a sit first, then a down?
    This particular question has been discussed quite a bit on the Rally forum. Unfortunately it really depends on the judge. Some judges have taken"Moving Down" to mean that the dog was supposed to go from heel directly to the down position without sitting but that is not requirement per the AKC. In the Rally judging seminars, the AKC has reiterated to the judges that it was never the intent for the dog to go DIRECTLY down from heel. Moving Down means heeling along (hence MOVING) then downing (in whatever way it takes to down). They say that as long as the dog is continually in the process of going down (ie not sitting, pausing, and waiting for a second command to down) then it has been performed correctly.

    I know I've posted the link for the Rally forum before but I'll post it again for the new people. It has tons of info including files of courses, classes, comparisons of signs, descriptions of signs, etc.

    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/R...guid=175570225


    Quote Originally Posted by AngusFangus

    Or, what if he downs, but is positioned right in front of me?
    Leave it alone. It is only a 1 pt deduction.
    <br /><br />Lydia, Murray &amp; Essy in AZ<br /><br />Clear Creek&#39;s Mad About You CDX RE NJP OAP OFP ASCA CDX GSN RSN NGC TGO TNO OAC NJC HPN PS1 JHE<br /><br />Larkspur&#39;s Essence RE NAC TNN JHE

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    rottnlabs is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Repeating stations in Rally - update -additional question on retry

    Quote Originally Posted by patm
    Thanks for all your replies - one more question - if you do re-try a station - where do you retry it from* - do you take your dog all the way back to before the station, walk up to it and do it again?* No more questions - I promise!*
    You need to make it clear to the judge that you are retrying it.* The best thing to do is to heel away from the station and reapproach it.* You can also tell the judge you are retrying it just to make sure s/he understands.* Most importantly, you must repeat ALL parts of the station.* For example if it is a sit/dow/sit and your dog sits but won't down, you can't just keep retrying the down portion.* You must get her up from the sit and reapproach the station in heel position and ask for sit/down/sit.* *Along those lines if the dog sits then stands, do not attempt a down from that point nor should you resit her.* Both are IPs (exercise did not ask for a stand or 2 sits before the down). That is when you absolutely need to retry the station.
    <br /><br />Lydia, Murray &amp; Essy in AZ<br /><br />Clear Creek&#39;s Mad About You CDX RE NJP OAP OFP ASCA CDX GSN RSN NGC TGO TNO OAC NJC HPN PS1 JHE<br /><br />Larkspur&#39;s Essence RE NAC TNN JHE

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    AngusFangus is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Repeating stations in Rally - update -additional question on retry

    Lydia, thanks for that link. Just wanted to let you know, I've been reading it off and on all day


    Connie and "The Boys":
    Angus, Yellow Lab, CGC, RE, CD
    Simon, d.b.a. Flat Coated Retriever, CGC, RE, CD

    Gone ahead, but forever in my heart:
    Crash, Pit Bull x Rottweiler x Golden Retriever

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    DefaultRe: Repeating stations in Rally - update -additional question on retry

    If you retry a station for whatever reason, always go back to the end of the previous station. By that I mean where the exercised stopped. Usually this is just past the sign. I would heel away from the station you are repeating back toward the previous station and circle around and get into position just after the sign. Hope this makes sense.


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    Monnie

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