Helping Ruger Understand The Difference.....
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Thread: Helping Ruger Understand The Difference.....

  1. #1
    3TailsWaggin's Avatar
    3TailsWaggin is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultHelping Ruger Understand The Difference.....

    If anyone has some suggestions or training tips to help us with this situation, please post them!!!

    Worked Ruger on gloves and go outs. We are having problems. My training partner says Ruger is unclear on the two exercises... he can't distinquish them apart very well. So we are doing some little tricks to help him like putting the gloves out there when we do the go-outs. Using the command "go" for the go out, and "take one (two, or three) for the gloves. Also we NEVER set him up for the go-outs at the spot where he will be set up to do gloves (between the jumps), but always set him up closer to the gating or further away.

    I can tell the boy is confused because both exercises we "mark" using an arm signal, and bless his heart he really is trying but it's not all clear to him yet. When we do the go-out and he runs to get a glove I will give him my nasty, "aaacck" sound to call him off... he looks so confused at me. But I bring him back and send him out again and when he does it correctly praise! praise! and praise some more. He does not do a "go-out" when I ask him to take the gloves... but he is still having issues with getting the correct glove. I'm using more of a "moving my arm toward the glove" signal. I didn't realize before that I was holding my still before... and you CAN do a movement forward with the arm in the direction of the glove, so I'm trying to help him all that I can.

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    ObedienceLabs4Me is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Helping Ruger Understand The Difference.....

    With the gloves make sure that you are not "pushing" him towards another glove with your body/shoulder or leaning towards another glove. That is something we all do without realizing it.

    Personally I would not put the gloves out if we are doing go outs. Two different exercises. Now, I will use the gloves as a distraction with articles. If he is going for the #2 glove take that one out for a while. That sometimes helps. OR if they really like one glove I will not send them for that one until right before a show and then I will work them all. With the gloves you might want to do some marking exercises like field work, throwing all the gloves having him mark them and then send him for the one you want him to go for, which helps prepare them for the blinds.

    The run-outs make no sense to a dog and is one of the hardest things to teach. I do use a clicker on this and teach to touch. I really like the way Linda has taught us to do go-outs opposed to the old way I taught Becca with food out there. Let me think on how to explain it. BUT, I would personally take the gloves out of the go-out exercise. Never will there be gloves in the ring with the go outs.
    Susan
    UCDX GRCH Dunn's Marsh Caleb of Waltona UDX3, OM3, RAE Canadian UD, RE
    FallRiver's Micah of Waltona GN RAE, Canadian CD, RN

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    3TailsWaggin's Avatar
    3TailsWaggin is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Helping Ruger Understand The Difference.....

    I agree with that there will never be gloves in the go-out. What my training partner says is that by HAVING them there it will teach him that "go" means run to the gate and sit and ignore the gloves.. .and that will help him to understand the difference in his mind. I'm not sure I'm explaining it as well as she did.. when she explained it.. it made perfect, logical sense to me. But now I'm confused and Ruger is too.

    We have done the other things you mentioned, throwing the gloves out and just marking them for retrieves. Taking glove #2 out of the equation all together. I do not put the gloves with the articles. I don't see sense in this. We are not having issues with the articles and I don't want to create one. His articles have been pretty dead on.

    I will be honest and tell you that I will not use a clicker. I've never liked clicker training. I'm not good remembering when to click them and I don't like carrying it around and worrying about clicking him. I have nothing against the principal of training with a clicker.. I just don't like them and will ALWAYS find another way to do it. So that's not really an option for me...

    I've emailed my training partner and asked her to put in writing all the things she went over with me last Sunday.. so maybe I can read them and understand what I'm doing wrong or forgetting, because certainly I am forgetting something

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    rottnlabs is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Helping Ruger Understand The Difference.....

    Quote Originally Posted by raian
    When we do the go-out and he runs to get a glove I will give him my nasty, "aaacck" sound to call him off... he looks so confused at me.
    Well I don't blame him!* I agree with Susan...don't put the gloves out for the go out.* That would be very confusing even to a seasoned dog.* I can't even imagine how confusing it would be to a green dog.* By the way It is very normal for a dog to go out to the same place as the glove they just took.* It's something they need to work thru.

    Utility requires the dog to think more so than the other levels.* They just need to work thru these things in their own time.* Murray hasn't confused the Utility exercises with each other but he is still confusing Open and Utility exercises.* It just takes time.

    Do you use a ring set up with stancions or just a pole for your go outs?* I do a little of both.* I also always use cheese on the stancion or pole for the go out.* The woman I train with said if you fade it too fast for a green dog your go outs will get shorter and shorter because the dog thinks "why bother going out that far, I know there is nothing there."* She also uses something like "take two' for glove 2 and "go to" for the go out so the dog associates the center position with two or to.* I thought that was pretty clever.

    Murray has been going for glove 2 in practice.* He'll mark 1, get halfway there then veer off to 2.* It's very irritating because you know he was locked onto 1 but caught 2 out of the corner of his eye.* We don't practice with glove 2 out very often now and when we do, Murray is on a flexi so I can stop him from taking 2.

    I'm just telling you this so you can see that the confusion is all part of the learning process and very normal.

    <br /><br />Lydia, Murray &amp; Essy in AZ<br /><br />Clear Creek&#39;s Mad About You CDX RE NJP OAP OFP ASCA CDX GSN RSN NGC TGO TNO OAC NJC HPN PS1 JHE<br /><br />Larkspur&#39;s Essence RE NAC TNN JHE

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    3TailsWaggin's Avatar
    3TailsWaggin is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Helping Ruger Understand The Difference.....

    Thanks Lydia. I realize confusion is part of the training process... I'm damn confused myself

    I would love to be able to put Ruger on a flexi so I could pull him off a wrong glove. But if I put a flexi on him, he simply will NOT go at all.

    Until I hear from my training partner concerning putting the gloves into the go-outs... I'm not going to do it again as I am obviously missing something or not doing it correctly and Ruger is getting messed up. She has Border Collies. Those dogs learn differently... but I'm open to her ideas because she DOES know how to train and get results.

    I will keep stumbling through this. Maybe, in the end, both Ruger and I will understand what the hell we are doing ;D

    God Bless him, he's such a good boy and he is trying. I think he must be saying to himself, "Hey, Mom, get your act together!!"

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    ObedienceLabs4Me is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Helping Ruger Understand The Difference.....

    Quote Originally Posted by rottnlabs

    Utility requires the dog to think more so than the other levels.* They just need to work thru these things in their own time.* Murray hasn't confused the Utility exercises with each other but he is still confusing Open and Utility exercises.* It just takes time.


    I'm just telling you this so you can see that the confusion is all part of the learning process and very normal.

    Oh, how true!!!* If Utility was easy to train, more dogs would have UD's!* It can be and is confusing in training but it does have to be worked through.

    I use the clicker only on go outs.* It has helped a lot, teaching the touch that the dog learns to touch whatever is in front of them and to run and touch.* I taught Becca another method of go outs and they just kept falling apart.* Most people that have trouble with go outs around here are teaching that older method I used on Becca.* Teaching the touch also can be used as a correction in the ring if the dog does not go out, so you have something built in that can be used in the ring.* I, too, am not a great fan of clicker training but I do have to admit it has helped our go outs!!!

    With the gloves, perhaps try narrowing the field of play.* Bring all the gloves closer to you but still far enough apart that you have to do pivots that will not allow him to go to the wrong glove.* Watch his eyes and then send him.* I am sure you are calling him off for the incorrect glove.

    As Lydia said, this takes the longes to train.* Plus to gain consistency that will carry through competition.* It is tough!
    Susan
    UCDX GRCH Dunn's Marsh Caleb of Waltona UDX3, OM3, RAE Canadian UD, RE
    FallRiver's Micah of Waltona GN RAE, Canadian CD, RN

    www.labmed.org


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    Kzunell is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Helping Ruger Understand The Difference.....

    Well there is another way to train the go out. you can do it with blind retrieves. you start off with about 6 pieces of 1inch dowel about 6 inches long. you get some loose grass or hay or straw enough to make a bed about 2-3 inches thick and 1 ft by 2ft. then you have your dog do retrieves of the dowels on top of it then partly hidden then one hidden and one visible etc all these initial retrieves are at about 6ft and the point is to teach the dog that there is always something there and there may/will be more than 1 thing and that the thing may not be visible. once you are at tat point where the dog retrieves hidden dowels with no problem and will go for multiple dowels you start increasing the distance. At 10 feet you no longer need the bed of grass or straw just place the dowels down in the grass of your training area they won't be visible until the dog gets closer. then just gradually lengthen the distance of the retrieves and make sure to start adding more than two dowels add three then four etc.. by the time you have your dog going out 70+ ft you can start with the turn and sit part. if your dog ever fails to go retrieve you can always correct him out to the dowel. the advantage of this is that for field work you want a dog that will go far on a blind and in obedience you don't want a dog that will not go out the full distance past the jumps because that would increase the odds that the dog won't take the jump.
    If you want more info just let me know

    Kelly G and Amber CGC
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    DefaultRe: Helping Ruger Understand The Difference.....

    Linda, are you pivoting when you do the gloves? If you aren't, I would definitely start. This will help differentiate the exercises in Ruger's mind. Also, start doing the jumps with the go outs. It will make more sense to him why he has to run out to the gating.
    I worked Buddy for the first times in months today. I had to go to Wannamaker Park to do a therapy evaluation. I decided to go early and do some obedience work. I have not practiced Buddy in months. I didn't know what would happen. I set up my gating, put cheese on the upright, and sent him. He went straight out, turned and sat. I was so excited. Next time I didn't cheese the gate. He did it perfectly. I was blown away. It will come with Ruger. Try doing short go outs, backing up and sending him over a jump. With Buddy, the go outs started coming together when I added the jumps. He knew why he was having to run away from me. Are you using gating? That helped with Buddy. It gave him somewhere he could identify to run to.
    With the gloves, do the pivots and then send him for whichever glove. He'll begin to realize that when he turns his back to the gating he's going to get a glove. Hope this makes sense. I feel like I'm rambling.


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