CDX: corrections on the retrieve over high jump?
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Thread: CDX: corrections on the retrieve over high jump?

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    IdahoLabs's Avatar
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    DefaultCDX: corrections on the retrieve over high jump?

    If the dog tries to go around the jump on the return, where would you stop him (after he passes the jump? when it's obvious he's going to go around it? when he gets back to you?) and if you stop him out there, would you go get him and return him to wherever he picked up the dumbbell, or handle him back past the jump and then call him in? preferences, reasons, etc? I've heard the stories of dogs in the ring who ran past the jump, realized something was wrong, went back out and jumped it coming in... how do you teach a dog to think for himself on that level?
    ~your decisions are only as good as the information you base them on~

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    ThreeTs's Avatar
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    In order for him to know where he went wrong, I think you need to get out there and intercept him as soon as possible, before he gets back to you. Corrections and rewards ideally come within two seconds of the dog's actions. Whether the fix is to return him to the spot he picked up the dumbell and call him over the jump again, or "lead" him over the jump I don't know, depends on why he missed the jump and how he was trained to do it in the first place. If he doesn't really know he is supposed to jump then you could lead him over to make sure he gets a right answer.

    Disclaimer: I have trained only one dog for that exercise, he was fairly reliable, but I would do it differently this time. With his training, the jump was just a thing in the way of him retrieving, hence, if the dumbbell flew totally out of the line of the jump, he didn't understand the need to jump at all and it required a huge amount of proofing before he was at all likely to remember to jump. With my current puppy I am using target training first, I want to have her taking a jump both ways on command without adding the actual retrieve until later, after jumping both ways has become the focus of the exercise. No idea how you can teach a dog to think enough to redo the jump on his own, marker training (clicker or vocal marker, I do voice) might be your best bet, since it encourages dogs to try out different actions.

    What training books are you using? There are several good ones and some, well, not so much, I look at the reviews on amazon. com and check books out from the library before buying. If you aren't using any at this point it would be a good idea to do some reading before proceeding further.

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    lcspt is offline Senior Member
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    With Kona I taught novice then open then utility skills. With Bo I have taught him all the way through utility vs by the class. The biggest difference is the way I taught jumping and when I taught the retrieve over high. Bo learned directed jumping first and also conditioned jumping (Janice Gunn) before he did retrieve over high (ROH). I also taught him to pick up the dumbbell that I placed in front of him and called him over the jump ...... working my way to all 4 corners. I also make sure I am looking at the jump when he is ready to turn and come back over the jump. I will help while I am teaching the concept with a jump command or hand signal. After he is solid on the exercise I would stop him where he was wrong and take him back to where he was last right and help him understand where he needs to go to be correct.
    "In moments of joy all of us wished we possessed a tail we could wag." W. H. Auden

    Linda, Kona and Bo

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    Belles mom is offline Senior Member
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    Is this a chronic problem, or one that just pops up occasionally? How much training have you done so far?

    I would stop the dog just as soon as you know he is going to go around the jump. Having a "wait" command helps here. Take the dog to the other side of the jump and command to jump. Be sure the jump is not at full height, it is not about the height of the jump, but rather his understanding of the execise.

    Next I would sit him on the other side of the jump with the dumbbell in his mouth and recall him over the jump. Be sure he understands that part well.

    Next I would toss the dumbbell over the jump, ask for the retrieve, and as he goes out and grabs the dumbbell, approach the jump, and indicate the jump, and recommend to jump. Keep doing this until he reliably turns and comes back over the jump.

    What is your command for the ROH? Is it a fetch command, or a jump command? It also helps for you to stare intently at the jump after he grabs the dumbbell and turns back toward you.

    Eventually you will want to practice offset throws, but wait on that until your dog fully understands to return over the high jump


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    Thanks y'all. We're still in the training aspect of it... been working on the ROH for about 3 weeks now. First week or so I was going to an agility arena about 2x/wk since I didn't have a jump of my own, finally acquired my own jump last week and we've been working on the jump once a day, sometimes twice. So I'm still working on figuring out how to train this one. He's been FF'd, ROF is fine. ROH is good if the dumbbell is in a straight line, if it lands offset he'll jump both ways ~75% of the time. I wouldn't say we have a problem with him avoiding the jump, at this point I think we have the concept (go over the obstacle both ways) down but it's not conditioned to the point he consistently makes the choice to detour in order to take the jump. I don't feel he's deliberately disobedient - he's a very soft, very willing dog; it's more like he just saw a straight line for the return and didn't notice there was a jump nearby.

    I've been working on some directed jumping... sort of. As in, I can leave him on a sit/stay offset from the jump and do a recall where I tell him to jump... he'll do that when he's offset from the jump right or left side. We're somewhere between teaching and proofing... I like the idea of teaching directed jumping first and suspect that would have been a really good building block to use before throwing the entire exercise at him. Whoops!

    Jumps are set about 10-12" and he's a 21" dog, didn't want to tire him out while working but did want it high enough to require a jump. Would y'all have the jumps lower or is that sufficient?

    I've been using "jump" for the ROH exercise since he does know to retrieve... I think I'd prefer "fetch" but for the moment it's been easier to say "jump" because it takes care of the going-out part of the exercise.

    Only book I have is Competition Obedience: A Balancing Act. Other than that just figuring things out as I go. Have any recommendations?
    Last edited by IdahoLabs; 09-05-2011 at 03:34 PM.
    ~your decisions are only as good as the information you base them on~

    Claire DVM
    Lijah UD GO VER RE CGC TDI ASCA-CD (7/10 UDX, 186/200 OM1 pts, 9/100 OTCH pts + UB/OB wins)
    Zen UD VER GO JH
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    lcspt is offline Senior Member
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    I like Janice Gunn's DVD's along with Connie Cleveland's to learn how to teach the exercises. Sometimes watching it is better than reading about it. Jump height sounds good to me .......... I jump my lab 22" at 16" when doing repetitive jumping. Remember to break the exercise down into smaller steps to teach and put it back together as each piece is solid.
    "In moments of joy all of us wished we possessed a tail we could wag." W. H. Auden

    Linda, Kona and Bo

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    I think you got good advice from Karen and Linda. As they mentioned, you need to take baby steps, break the excersize down into pieces so he understands that his job is to get the dumbbell, bring it back and jump the jump both ways to do it. I think we started with flat retrieves and recalls over the jump. Flat retrieves and recalls over the jump with dumbbell. The retrieves over low jump, close distance and built from there. At first, it is important to have help so the the dumbbell can be placed directly across the jump (if necessary).

    I had to practice throwing the dumbbell without my dog. I was really bad at throwing the dumbbell. I used a hoola hoop as a target for that. hey, you still have to proof eventually for those offset throws, but you might as well practice throwing to improve your chances of getting the throw centered and improve your dog's chance for success under pressure! :-)

    Ann & Miles
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    Thanks Ann! I think it might have just clicked for Lijah... we went through the ROH this evening and he took the jump both ways without prompting, even when the dumbbell landed offset. I did go out and get the dumbbell after really horrible throws a couple times... but some "no-birds" are good practice for a dog too. LOL. I like the hoola hoop idea. Guess I'll just see how he progresses and if we're ready when the fall shows arrive. Thanks again y'all!
    ~your decisions are only as good as the information you base them on~

    Claire DVM
    Lijah UD GO VER RE CGC TDI ASCA-CD (7/10 UDX, 186/200 OM1 pts, 9/100 OTCH pts + UB/OB wins)
    Zen UD VER GO JH
    Boaz JH CD CGC
    Brie CD CGC
    Tara (future amazingness!)
    www.clairedvm.com

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