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  1. #1
    IdahoLabs's Avatar
    IdahoLabs is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultTimeframe?

    So.... there's a four day show in South Dakota four weeks from now. There's that show, a two-day show in Colorado in November, and that's all we've got for the rest of the year. Not too much available to us in the spring due to the location of some jobs I'd like to take (no shows nearby). I'd like to enter Novice and try to put the CD on Lijah in South Dakota next month, just trying to decide if I should enter or not. He's solid on the stand-for-exam, good heeling on leash, we're just starting off-leash work, solid sit/down stays, good recall, and he's relaxed at the shows we've been to.

    That said, I've only had him 5 weeks and all his training is what I've done while I've had him.

    I have put a CD on a dog before, know what "ready" looks like, think we can do it, just looking for some reassurance. I'm aware it's probably pushing him a lot, but I kind of *need* these titles. I'm in college, hopefully vet school next year, do internships, etc - I think having some obedience titles will give me a better chance of being able to take him with me around the country to internships/jobs (looking at both Canada and Montana in the spring), and a better chance of finding places to rent that will allow a dog. Titles are independent verification, not just "well, my friends all say he's the best behaved dog they've ever met..." LOL. So I do feel some pressure regarding these titles. We're testing for the CGC next weekend which'll be helpful too.

    Yet, I don't want to get in a position where I've pushed him too fast and he's ring sour or has learned bad habits. So far he seems to like being in the ring and has been well behaved. I was browsing the obedience Novice B results at one of the last shows we were at (a class where the handlers ought to know a lot about training and competing, right?), and noted that all the dogs were 2 to 3 years of age (aka a lot of training). I believe I titled Boaz at 23 months. Lijah has just turned 13 months. Anyone out there put a CD on a dog at 14 months or am I just nuts? (LOL)

    What do y'all think? comments, advice?
    TIA


    ETA some additional info...
    Last edited by IdahoLabs; 09-28-2010 at 06:11 PM.
    ~your decisions are only as good as the information you base them on~

    Claire DVM
    Lijah UD GO VER RE CGC TDI ASCA-CD (7/10 UDX, 186/200 OM1 pts, 9/100 OTCH pts + UB/OB wins)
    Zen UD VER GO JH
    Boaz JH CD CGC
    Brie CD CGC
    Tara (future amazingness!)
    www.clairedvm.com

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  3. #2
    Milesmom's Avatar
    Milesmom is offline Senior Member
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    Well, my experience is limited to the experience I have had with this Miles. I will say there is no way I would have succeeded in the obedience ring with him when he was 13 months old and only 5 weeks of training. My dog is pretty calm in the ring too. Obedience is high stress. What my dog does in stress is sniff the floor and gaze off at whatever is going on outside the ring. With talking to your dog being against the rules, you are at a loss for what to do about it.

    My opinion is, it is too soon to take Lijah in the obedience ring. You may or may not make him ring sour, it depends on your dog. You surely could create a bad habit (it's okay to stop and sniff the floor). As for showing proof to landlords and schools, etc that he's a nice dog, the CGC and the Therapy Dog certification should do the job for that. The TDI therapy dog test is pretty much the same as the CGC test. People, at least around here, are very impressed with the Therapy Dog status but don't have a clue about AKC obedience titles or what it takes to get one. Miles passed CGC at 7 months and TDI and 12 mos.
    Honestly, if these places you go won't accept your dog with the CGC or TDI, they won't with a CD either in my opnion.

    If what you really want is to try to get another title on your dog, I'd try for RA. It is off leash, but there you can talk to your dog all you want.

    Just my opinion, for what it is worth.

    Ann & Miles
    MACH ARCHEX "Miles" (DOB 3/10/2006) UD RAE MXS MJS OF CW-OB3 CW-ARF CW-AR CW-ZR2 CL-1 (DOB 3/10/2006)
    "Hartley" (DOB 7/21/2012) RN CGC CW-OB1

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    Amber got her 1st CD leg (197) at 14 months and had her CD with all 195+ in 2 months and was the top AKC Novice A all breed dog for 2006 by 17-18 months of age. But I did a lot of proofing and there was always corrections for inattention. Lots of heeling around major distractions and lots of sudden fast trns as soon as the dog looked away. lots of practicing starts as soon as the dog was distracted by a clown juggling while playing a squeeze box, through kids playing soccer, next to train tracks, while ambulances and fire trucks went by, stays while other dogs ran loose and bumped or jumped over her, in the pouring rain, thunder, people dragging dog crates around horses being led around, etc.. I never required that she look at me though, just know what I was doing and where I was.
    If you have gotten enough proofing in then you shhould be OK if your dog still gets awaywith some stuff then it will be way worse at the trial.
    Light, "weedy" individuals are definitely incorrect; equally objectionable are cloddy lumbering specimens. Labrador Retrievers shall be shown in working condition well-muscled and without excess fat. Females should weigh between 55 and 70lbs and Males between 65 and 80lbs. Height females 21.5 to 23.5 inches males 22.5 to 24.5 inches at the withers.

    Kelly
    HR Greenwoods Sealion Tsunami SH "Wave" born 3-9-2010
    Greenwoods Amber Wave VCD2 RA SH AX OF WCX CGC "Amber" born 4-13-2005
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    IdahoLabs's Avatar
    IdahoLabs is offline Senior Member
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    Well... I train everywhere around town; parks, campus, sidewalks, backyard, Wyoming, Colorado, etc. Our usual training location is a grassy couple acres in the middle of campus, usually train a couple times a day and try to time at least one session when there's a lot of folks on campus. Not unusual to do sit/down stays at 30 yards with a steady line of students walking next to him or between us and he's solid for that. Did some heeling work during the lunch hour next to a steady stream of pedestrians and one crazy Lab ;-) who was straining at the end of his leash... Lijah never looked away from me.

    He's ready for the RA now (except for practicing the broad jump), but after watching Rally Advanced and Excellent for the last three weeks while waiting our turn to show... I don't think enough of Rally titles to make any special effort to show Rally again. It was great for introducing Lijah to the show ring, but that's about it. JMO. We'll either show for the CD or we won't go.

    Got one probably yes and one probably not... anyone else have an opinion?
    ~your decisions are only as good as the information you base them on~

    Claire DVM
    Lijah UD GO VER RE CGC TDI ASCA-CD (7/10 UDX, 186/200 OM1 pts, 9/100 OTCH pts + UB/OB wins)
    Zen UD VER GO JH
    Boaz JH CD CGC
    Brie CD CGC
    Tara (future amazingness!)
    www.clairedvm.com

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    Milesmom's Avatar
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    I know what you mean about AKC rally. We did rally all the way through RAE and I found that judges are very inconsistent with rally. I had some allow and only make minor deductions for dogs that actually left their handlers and went across the ring to work the crowd, smell something, zoomies, whatever. To me, those should have been NQ's, dog not in control at all. Although, at my last rally trial, the judge was excusing those teams. It is such a contrast, obedience is so precise, rally hardly prepares most handlers for obedience unless those handlers are using rally for that preparation.

    As for for Lijah's readiness for Novice Obedience. Only you can tell if he's ready. I am more concerned with the short amount of time you have had him to train than his age. It sounds like you've been proofing him and he's a steady kind of guy. I will tell you what some have told me. Try it as long as you can look at it as an expensive match and not be upset or deflated if you NQ. If your attitude toward an NQ is "Okay, some things were good, some things neeed work. We will work on them and try again", then go for it. If an NQ will be upsetting to you, don't do it until you've been to some matches and run throughs and really feel confident he is ready. What worries me is the idea that he "needs" to have a CD so he can travel with you. That adds some pressure and he is green. Will it worry or upset you go to all these trials and he doesn't get the title? He'll know if it does. As I mentioned, the TDI designation would probably go a longer way with landlords, schools and medical centers.

    That's kind of my attitude with Utility. If we aren't ready, we are close. So we are going to try it and then we'll see where our weaknesses are. We may even get a leg!

    Good luck, whatever you decide.

    Ann & Miles
    MACH ARCHEX "Miles" (DOB 3/10/2006) UD RAE MXS MJS OF CW-OB3 CW-ARF CW-AR CW-ZR2 CL-1 (DOB 3/10/2006)
    "Hartley" (DOB 7/21/2012) RN CGC CW-OB1

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    Belles mom is offline Senior Member
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    I tried a long post to this yesterday, but the connection burped when I sent it.

    It sounds like you have made up your mind to try the CD anyway. Personally I would not try a CD on a dog I only had for 5 weeks, but I probably have different expectations for what I ultimately want out of a competition dog. What are your long term goals for Lijah? Is it only to get a CD or to go further, say CDX, UD, UDX or OTCH or unknown? If you ae just seeking a CD and quit after that, go ahead and see how it goes. If you want to go further, I'd say wait and train further and farther than where you are right now. My bias, but just about everyone I know trains through Utility before competing...but I compete/train with the best in the nation...literally at least four of the top five in the nation.

    Confidence as a handler that your dog CAN/WILL do the exercises well is paramount. This type of confidence is different than 'I have not seen a problem, therefore one does not exist' kind of philosophy.

    So, Lijah can hold a stay (very important!) with people passing by and "some" heeling. What if someone tosses a ball or other object in front of him while he is in a stay or heeling? What if people crinkle paper/food wrappers etc. right in front of his face? Have you practiced stays in a line of dogs? What if he is in a stay and dogs are called out of that line (simulating dogs breaking the stay), or he is in a sit stay and the other dogs go into a down?

    Good luck if you do go for Lijah's CD. If however you are thinking that his having a CD will make people/landlords etc. think better of him, keep in mind that probably 99% of people have no idea what a CD is.


    Karen and the gang
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    IdahoLabs's Avatar
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    Sharon - Someday I would like to get the CDX and UD, but Lijah would be 10 years old if I waited to compete until after we were training at UD level. (LOL) One thing at a time. Nice that you have training partners that are that good though. I'm sure I'd make a lot more progress if I did too.

    We've done some training with other dogs nearby - aggressive dogs lunging and barking at their backyard fence make for great training distractions while we're on walks. LOL. I've emailed some of my friends with dogs and will see about getting together for simulating breaks/downs next to Lijah while he's on a stay. Forgot I'd trained for that with Boaz using my other dogs; amazing how much can be forgotten in 4 years of not training.

    Milesmom - I'm prevet; the competitive attitude that takes a person to where they are a competitive applicant for vet school also makes it so I can't "not care" if we NQ. That said, I'm not a perfectionist and I don't need a perfect score to be happy with our performance. I think Boaz and I had 186-190 scores or pretty similar to that. I think Lijah's close enough now that we can do it. Not going to be perfect but I think he can do it, but will do my best not to let him know I'm disappointed if we NQ. :P Pup is different from the Labs I've had; they were willing to please, all of Lijah's thoughts revolve around doing what I want. Weird dog but I kind of like it. LOL.

    (Re Rally - I agree. Also, saw enough disobedient, inattentive, etc, etc dogs that received qualifying scores in advanced and excellent that I was really unimpressed by Rally in general. If that's what an RA or RE dog looks like, I sure don't think much of those titles on a pedigree if that's all a dog has. There were also some incredibly good dogs, but there's no way to distinguish between a good performance and a poor performance on a pedigree - three qualifying scores equals a title. JMO.)

    Thinking about what you both have said, I think I'm probably making too much out of "needing" the CD and the CGC is probably perfectly sufficient. We'll have a good reference from our landlord anyhow (important given that he's such a young dog - many places won't rent to dogs over a certain weight or under a certain age, wouldn't believe how hard it was to find a place for this fall). As to the TDI; I'd like to but I'm not sure we'll have the opportunity to acquire the TDI anytime soon; no evaluators in ID or WY, three evaluators in CO but no tests scheduled for the future.

    I would still like the CD "just because," and if nothing else, going to a four-day show is far cheaper than attending multiple 1-2 day shows in terms of travel, even though it is a five hour drive. I sent off the entries, we'll proof for the next four weeks, and I'll let y'all know if this was a total mistake when I return from the show. ;-) Thanks for the input.
    ~your decisions are only as good as the information you base them on~

    Claire DVM
    Lijah UD GO VER RE CGC TDI ASCA-CD (7/10 UDX, 186/200 OM1 pts, 9/100 OTCH pts + UB/OB wins)
    Zen UD VER GO JH
    Boaz JH CD CGC
    Brie CD CGC
    Tara (future amazingness!)
    www.clairedvm.com

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    IdahoLabs's Avatar
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    On the topic of training - I took Lijah to campus during the lunch hour today for training, found a spot in the center of campus where there were cheerleaders, Cowboy fans handing out posters, students walking back and forth for classes and lunch, and speakers set up playing music loud enough to shake the ground. Put him on sit and down stays and went to the opposite side of the plaza area to watch him. He wasn't in the way, but still had people walking or biking right next to him, students walking over him, had one guy stop to pet him for like 15 seconds, LOL. Sits and downs were good, he did get up from a down when the Pepsi truck/semi drove by literally 6 feet away (can't say as I blamed him), but otherwise didn't move. We'll go practice by the bus/shuttle stop tomorrow morning since that seems like a good distraction.
    Last edited by IdahoLabs; 09-30-2010 at 06:32 PM.
    ~your decisions are only as good as the information you base them on~

    Claire DVM
    Lijah UD GO VER RE CGC TDI ASCA-CD (7/10 UDX, 186/200 OM1 pts, 9/100 OTCH pts + UB/OB wins)
    Zen UD VER GO JH
    Boaz JH CD CGC
    Brie CD CGC
    Tara (future amazingness!)
    www.clairedvm.com

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    Milesmom's Avatar
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    It sounds like you are doing everything you can to be prepared. Let us know how it goes and good luck.

    Ann & Miles
    MACH ARCHEX "Miles" (DOB 3/10/2006) UD RAE MXS MJS OF CW-OB3 CW-ARF CW-AR CW-ZR2 CL-1 (DOB 3/10/2006)
    "Hartley" (DOB 7/21/2012) RN CGC CW-OB1

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    My bottom line before entering my girls in the traditional obed ring is : Is there ANY concern at all to me that they will cause any distraction to another dog in the ring which may affect that dog? That's the biggest thing. Don't chance messing up anyone else's "day". Have had it happen to mine and it's really not fun. If Lijah is intact (sorry, I don't know), would he by chance show interest in a girl who though isn't in season, may be coming in or out a few weeks and still throwing scent?

    Anne (who also shows youngsters in obed but not w/o A LOT of serious group proofing first)

    PS, btw, though I don't put a lot of stock in Rally titles either, it does serve a purpose of getting the dogs out to train/perform in a show atmosphere. I had my 17 mo old out (who is also in Nov B obed and won her class today for the 2nd time, 2nd Q) in Rally Adv, and she earned a perfect 100 in RA. Bunk or not? When they are capable of high 90's and 100's in RA, then I think they MAY be ready for traditional obed. JMO.
    Last edited by windycanyon; 10-02-2010 at 10:28 PM.

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