Field Bred vs Conformation Bred for work
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Thread: Field Bred vs Conformation Bred for work

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    Deanna1002's Avatar
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    DefaultField Bred vs Conformation Bred for work

    I’ve been wanting to post this for a while now… and I need opinions.

    Most know that I have apple and truly enjoy every dog sport. I initially got her as a pet. She was too energetic, so we started agility, obedience.. then came field and tracking. I will be doing this for the rest of my life, finally found my passion! Anyway, as I get ready to show apple in the different venues this year, I feel that I have the time, money, space and commitment to bring in another working dog. I’m not married and won’t be until maybe 50s? =) and I don’t have children. I have really thought about this and spoken to many people I train with. I figured by the time Apple gets her CDX and all that, I will just start to show the pup.
    So this is where I’m stuck ……………………. I was speaking to Petra Ford the other day, about Tyler and her choice for dogs… She told me that she chooses Field bred labs, because of their working ethics. Though Tyler is a beautiful HUGE black lab with great coat, my preference is the short stockier labs... I also met powell her new pup (son of tyler) and she told me that when I’m completely ready, to go to her and she will give me a lab. Now the thing is I want titles on both ends… At the end of the day my goal is to produce a Ch. OTCh MH(with tracking titles and agility.. lol). Is this feasible? Of course, can I produce this ?? of course I can. Whether it’s with apple, the next pup, or the one after that... Yes field labs are very driven.. does this mean bench dogs aren’t ? Then how would one explain Ch. MHR Caer Bren Superhero, MH or all the 40 other Ch. MH Labradors throughout the years. Is this an exception ??? I don’t feel that it is… I think that if someone wants a working dog they will automatically(for the most part) go with strong field lines. When all is said and done, the very first bred field dog never had titles behind them.
    Now the type of dog I’m looking for is one who has extreme drive to work and problem solves!! One that doesn’t stress out quickly. Still a big loveable mush who can cuddle and give those slobbery kisses all over my face. The thing about Ty is that he can work his head off and never stress about something he does wrong, he just continues to try to get it right in a very happy manner.
    Even though i love apple’s breeder, I want to find a breeder who knows about all dog sports and how to pick the pup I’m looking for. I was thinking LegaSea Labs ?? Caerbren Labs ??
    Can someone give me their input or opinion??? Any nice Ch working lines that I might want in pedigree?? dickendall?

    Thanks!

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    3TailsWaggin's Avatar
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    Yes, it's possible but it will take a lot of work. I find that the majority of bench dogs don't have the work ethic. I'm not saying they aren't trainable, they are, but it takes more than that, they have to WANT to perform. I have a dog like that... Remington. He comes from bench lines and although he is a very bright boy and has learned most everything I've taught him, he does NOT have the same work ethic of Ruger (my yellow boy that has more field dogs in his pedigree).

    If your goal is to put a Ch on the dog, you are going to have to look long and hard. First, most breeders aren't going to part with a dog they feel will be of that quality, they want those dogs for their own breeding/showing programs. Second, you will have to talk to people who are doing performance events and find out the lines their dogs come from, do your research. Also, consider that you will have to show an intact animal, which has its downfalls too.

    I don't think the Dickendall dogs have the work ethic to do what you want. I am not familiar with the other lines you mention.

    Also, consider that right now it is very difficult to get a Ch on a labrador, because there are so many labradors you need a lot of show wins/points. The competition is fierce.

    How much showing have you done? It takes a long time to train for all these events, to have the top caliber dog you need to reach the upper levels of competition. Have you shown in any of these venues before?

    You have set some very lofty goals.

    You might want/need to take a step back and work on one thing at a time. Get your CD, get your CDX, get your UD, then work on your UDX and OtCH. Honestly, I don't know how you'd find the time to also train for Master Hunter and all the other things you've mentioned. I wish you luck.
    Last edited by 3TailsWaggin; 02-04-2010 at 12:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3TailsWaggin View Post

    Also, consider that right now it is very difficult to get a Ch on a labrador, because there are so many labradors you need a lot of show wins/points. The competition is fierce.

    How much showing have you done? It takes a long time to train for all these events, to have the top caliber dog you need to reach the upper levels of competition. Have you shown in any of these venues before?

    You have set some very lofty goals.

    You might want/need to take a step back and work on one thing at a time. Get your CD, get your CDX, get your UD, then work on your UDX and OtCH. Honestly, I don't know how you'd find the time to also train for Master Hunter and all the other things you've mentioned. I wish you luck.

    I have not shown in any yet, i do know this is what i will be doing for many years to come. But i know my instructors can and will get me through this.(Top Dog and Mitch from GameKeepers is also very good field trainer)
    I work very short hours during the day... i def. do have the time. And with the right dog, this can be accomplished. You are right about the dedicating oneself to one venue first then the other, like petra said in order for her to be The top dog in the us she has no time for field, she has the aqua dog center and her other job so it is tough... But someone i train with does have their otch and one mh leg on her flat coat, and another otch and senior leg on her other... so i guess its just a matter of perseverance, and patience on my part.

    I'm not saying my next dog will be that, or the ones following will have these titles... but some time in my life i want this... I'm also planning on co-owning this dog. I will though prioritize working titles before ch titles. I am very aware of how hard this is...
    So yes i will work one title at a time, but my goal at the end of the day otch and mh, and maybe a Ch in the mix.. we'll see

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    Again, I wish you luck. I know you will have fun along the way.

    Not to be a Debbie Downer, but just realize plans change all the time. I honestly wanted to become an AKC Obedience judge. I had it all planned out and was meeting the requirements. Until I got arthritis in my feet. See what I mean. Out of the blue your plans and goals can change like that. There is no way in hell I want to stand on my feet all day long now. So my goals change and I just roll with it.

    Reading your first post, I sensed your enthusiasm, but I also sensed you might be setting yourself up to fail before you began.

    It's great to shoot for the moon, but to get there you have to learn to fly first.

    Take it one step at a time and have fun along the way. Remember also that the dog you show is 50% of the team, and his/her goals may not be yours.

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    Ahhh, you think the same way I do.... I want to breed a CH MACH MH

    I've only worked with show bred labs and I can honestly say that all but one of my 8 completely show bred dogs have wonderful work ethics!! Many Dickendall boys produce wonderful drive and working ability (so I have NO idea where Linda is coming from), they're behind a number of CH MH's. I've been thrilled with the working ability of my Travis boy and know many people who feel them same way (Travis= www.hyspire.com/travis.htm). Travis is linebred on Raintree Slippery When Wet who was also known to produce great working ability! Are you looking for a puppy or a stud dog for your girl?

    I absolutely respect Petra for what she's accomplished with her dog, but that's not a LAB to me.

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    The pool of dogs you are looking at is small. You really need a pup out of Ch/MH x Ch/MH next option would be Ch/MH x Ch/SH Ignore the JH's they aren't proven for what you want and even the Sh's you should see work before you decide you want a pup from. I would say to also look at CH/Mach dogs but the only one there was has died and there will only be a few more litters from him, he did have a Ch/UD/Mach/MH and was qualified for the Master Nationals (hunting) and some of his pups have tracking titles too. He was a little low on drive but acceptable. You aren't going to get a FC or AFC out of the showlines so if you want that you better go field lines. You will never get a Ch out of field lines so if you want that you have to go bench. If you do want a Ch/FC then flatcoats or maybe Goldens?? would be your breed. Sorry

    Kelly
    Light, "weedy" individuals are definitely incorrect; equally objectionable are cloddy lumbering specimens. Labrador Retrievers shall be shown in working condition well-muscled and without excess fat. Females should weigh between 55 and 70lbs and Males between 65 and 80lbs. Height females 21.5 to 23.5 inches males 22.5 to 24.5 inches at the withers.

    Kelly
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    nicole - i've also researched that line and have read of many many good working labs that they've produced.
    Like i said before i think it's a matter of finding "that" lab, who comes from ch bloodlines. I will wait litters after litters.
    That travis boy is gorgeous by the way!
    I'm looking for a puppy. I will never breed apple or any other dog for that matter unless i'm getting very impressive titles on both ends.



    I look at it this way "If the dream is big enough, that facts don't count..." =)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber The Duck Dawg View Post
    The pool of dogs you are looking at is small. You really need a pup out of Ch/MH x Ch/MH next option would be Ch/MH x Ch/SH Ignore the JH's they aren't proven for what you want and even the Sh's you should see work before you decide you want a pup from.
    Titles on the actual dogs bred are certainly nice, but they actual working ability of the dogs and line is more important. It takes a ton of time and money on top of the great dog to get those titles. A MH and MACH are judged against standards, unlike a FC, so if you have a dog that has the work ethic, are able to do the training and have the money to enter trials/tests, it can be done. The CH would be the harder part, IMO. I'm not familiar with the obedience stuff, so I can't help with that. Kobe (the dog Kelly is talking about) was certainly incredible, but I haven't seen him produce himself. I'd personally put my money on a pup out known drivey lines with great conformation (even without their own titles) before searching for a Kobe pup.

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    but that's not a LAB to me.
    Ouch, that hurt!

    In defense of my statement regarding the Dickendall dogs, the only one's I've been around are conformation type and have been overdone and in no way could last for the stresses of hard training. They would rather lay around and conserve their energy than go at 150% all the time. I like the ones that give you 150% all the time.

    I'm sure there are many options for her to chose from out there.
    Last edited by 3TailsWaggin; 02-04-2010 at 04:46 PM.

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    MicksMom is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanna1002 View Post
    I’ve been wanting to post this for a while now… and I need opinions.

    ...I was speaking to Petra Ford the other day, about Tyler and her choice for dogs… She told me that she chooses Field bred labs, because of their working ethics. Though Tyler is a beautiful HUGE black lab with great coat, my preference is the short stockier labs... I also met powell her new pup (son of tyler) and she told me that when I’m completely ready, to go to her and she will give me a lab...
    I can't give you any input on breeders, but, having met Tyler, are you up to all that drive? I know I'm not. And Powell seems to be following in his Daddy's paw prints, at least from what I've seen. So it seems that Ty passes that drive on. Don't get me wrong, Tyler is a wonderful working dog, and fits Petra to a "T", but he's way too much dog for me to handle. Just food for thought.

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