we just adopted a big, beautiful lab that has systemic yeast infection. we switched him over to raw, have him on probiotics, olive leaf suppliments, and msm, oh and enzymes. he doesn't poop regularly, but in my reading i have seen that could be a sympton of the infection. does anyone out there have any experience/advice with this? thanks!
What kind of raw diet do you have him on? Cut out any veggies - not species appropriate and can cause digestive issues.
Why all the probiotics, supplements, msm (whatever that is) and enzymes? Probiotics are destroyed by a dog's strong stomach acids (~50% Hydrochloric acid) and are not helping the problem. Most supplements are unnecessary if you're feed a good raw diet (e.g., whole prey, frankenprey) to start with. These supplements also may be contributing to the problem.
How long has been on the raw diet? It takes awhile to get rid of systemic yeast.
I would suggest a simple whole prey/frankenprey diet that is predominantly red meat and without all the supplements, etc. This basic diet will strengthen his immune system which will give him the best opportunity to overcome systemic yeast. Even with this simple diet, you need to give it some time to work.
Caleb had a systemic yeast infection. He was on raw about a year and a half when I took him to the holistic vet. Besides giving him stuff to rebuild his immune system she also gave him some homeopatic treatment for vaccinosous. His reactions to the vaccines also helped the infection remain in his system. But a key was stuff to rebuild the immune system--vitamin C and E the Oxyfresh Primorye to name a couple things. Switching him to raw alone did not help. Now, Caleb is on digestive enzymes cause if he doesn't get them he will sometimes throw up his food so his holistic vet said to just play it safe and keep giving him the enzymes. MSM is an anti-inflamitory if I am not mistaken and not sure it will do anything for the yeast. One thing though Caleb did always have regular bm's though.
Article on probiotics:
Bonnie ~ Ellsworth Labradors
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This is not an article. It's an advertisement for their product which BTW is not species appropriate. Save your money and feed a simple whole prey/frankenprey raw diet. Supplements such as advertised above are not necessary when feeding a species appropriate raw food diet.Originally Posted by Labs4me
The advantage of working with a holistic DVM is that you can find out for sure what exactly your dog needs. As my holistic vet said, for whatever reason Caleb needs the digestive enzyme. While rebuilding his immune system we did add some vitamin C and E but now that he's better we've about eliminated it. But because fo the stress of training and showing I do still give some stuff for the immune system. Showing every other weekend though fun for them, can be stressful. Caleb loves it but he does still get stressed, just like me when we go into the ring.
I think the holistic vet idea isn't a bad one Kym, they can be a fantastic resource!
I would cut out any yeasty veggies in the meantime. I know others advocate a veggie-free diet, but my guys get veggie baby food (I couldn't stand the pulverizing, WAAAY too much work for me.  ) and it works really well for them. I really think some dogs benefit from the extra fiber, if nothing else.
Here's a good article on foods to avoid when you have "yeast issues". Basically, stick with greens, leafy, avoid starchy (potatoes) and carrots.
Here's the exerpt:It's geared towards people, so obviously you'd have to adjust it for canine appropriateness.Diet That encourage the growth of yeast and should be avoided
AVOID All sweets including hidden sweeteners in processed foods, such as soups, all fruit and fruit juice. Avoid grains such as prepared flake cereals sprouted grain cereals such as: Amaranth, Buckwheat, Corn, Millet, Rice, Rye, Spelt, Wheat.
Avoid Granola, Pearl barley, Instant oats, Cornmeal, degerminated Hominy grits, degerminated Microwave popcorn Blue corn meal
Pasta Pasta is flour and water, the flour may be white bread flour and it may be durum flour made from semolina. All types of noodles are made from the same base and they should all be cut out of the diet, with Bufin, the Japanese noodles, Ramen instant noodles, farina, semolina and white flour noodles and pastas.
Baked goods and Breads Avoid all cakes, pastries, cookies doughnuts or other processed baked food containing sugar. This list includes white bread, or any bread containing wheat, which includes parathas, nanas bread, pita bread, white flour tortillas, wheat dough tortillas, sourdough, or any other ethnic bread made from wheat. Mochi the sweet unleavened bread made from brown rice should be avoided.
Legumes Avoid beans and peas with sweeteners, bean sprouts, tempeh which a type of fermented tofu, tofu and textured vegetable protein.
Nuts & Seeds Coconut, Peanuts, Pistachios, Walnuts
Dairy Products Buttermilk, Soymilk (sweetened), All kinds of cheeses, Cottage cheese, Kefir, Milk, Sour cream Crème fraîche Sweetened yogurt.
Fruit Never eat dried fruit, and when you start the Candida cleanse diet it is best to avoid all fruit because of the fructose the sugar it contains. Once you have eliminated the current Candida infection then eat fruit with a moderate amount of sugar. Low sugar fruits are apples, grapefruit, melon, and strawberries.
Beverages Alcohol, Cereal beverages, Coffee both regular and decaffeinated Fruit juices Soft drinks including the diet soft drinks. Processed tea drinks such as lemon tea. All fruit teas, Black tea
Condiments and Sauces No Ketchup or catsup or any type of tomato sauce Cream sauces such as Alfredo Steak sauce, NO Capers, Dried or powdered garlic, Miso, Dried or powdered onion, Pickles or chutneys, which include anything made with sugar and distilled vinegar. Spices, Distilled vinegar Sauerkraut.
Proteins: Meat products such as beef chicken or pork have added antibiotics and hormones and they should be avoided if you want to eat meat then eat free-range organic products. Smoked meats such as bacon, sausages and salami products such as pepperoni have added sugar and should be cut out of your diet.
Avoid - Beetroot Canned tomatoes Carrots Cucumber skins, Mushrooms (all types), Potato skins, Prepared soups, Canned tomatoes
Eat - Beans, Broccoli, Brussels sprouts Cabbage, Cauliflower, Celery, Cucumbers Green pepper, Kale, Lettuce Onion, radishes, Parsley, Peas, Rocket or arugulla Spinach, Tomatoes.
Baloo - 5 year old black lab
Peanut - 7 year old minpin
Monster - 3-ish year old frenchie/jack, rescue
There is also a considerable amount of hydrochloric acid in the human stomach. That is why most enzymes and probiotics for humans are enteric coated. Having said that, enteric coating can be unreliable in dogs as sometimes it is not processed quickly enough or it passes through the GI tract too quickly for the contents to be absorbed.
Also, not all enzymes are created equally. Pepsin is actually produced in the stomach and can survive in a very acidic environment. Probiotics if taken on an empty stomach will be better able to survive as the hydrochloric acid contents will be fairly low. Alternately, feeding them after a large meal will also find them in a lower concentration of hydrochloric acid. You also have to question the efficacy of research done on probiotics as the bulk of it is done by manufacturers trying to market their enteric coated forms.
So, digestive enzymes will prolly survive in the GI tract (depending on what type). Probiotics, well the jury is still out on that one. You could try enteric coated ones and know that you will get some digestion, although we don't know if it is adequate. Older dogs will generally respond better as the hydrochloric acid content of the gut diminishes with age. Their enzyme production will also slow down with age.
To err is human:To forgive, canine."
With the digestive enzymes I give Caleb they are for dogs and they are a powder. When I do have to use something "human" I will either grind it or break it open for the reasons Dana stated. Hopefully my next Lab won't need as much extra that Caleb has.
enzymes and probiotics are in powder form, he's been on raw for a little over a week, i'm not expecting him to be better overnight, but we have already seen improvements, maybe it's the raw, maybe it's a combo of all the stuff. from what i have seen, most yeast detox programs call for raw fed, enzymes, and probiotics. the other stuff we have him on is mainly to boost up his immune system and help with his major itching.
this is him 2 days after we got him
this is him this weekend, a little over 1 week since we have had him