Need help with possible elimination diet...
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Thread: Need help with possible elimination diet...

  1. #1
    Baloo317's Avatar
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    DefaultNeed help with possible elimination diet...

    So, the latest in the "Peanut allergy" saga is that she has FINALLY stopped reacting. She had a 1/2 tab of pred and benedryl sunday night, and was fine all day monday! (this is highly unusual, in the past week and a half she needed to be medicated at least every 12 hours, if not more frequently to keep the swelling and bumpies under control). I gave her a half tab of benedryl last night, and she has been totally fine today as well.

    What did we change? I put her on a turkey-based dehydrated raw food starting monday morning, *just in case* it was something in her diet, even though she hadn't had anything new. So, it's looking like what happened is 1 of 3 options:

    1) She is allergic to, or has developed an allergy to something in her regular raw diet, even though there was nothing really "new". The reaction took a bit of time to build up..?

    2) The diet change was enough of a shock to her system that her body had to quit focusing on the allergic reaction and focus on that instead.

    3) It is a total coincidence that she stopped reacting when I switched her food, and the actual allergen was something entirely unrelated to her diet.

    Hmm...

    My plan is to keep her on the dehydrated food for at least a week, with no meds, just to make sure we have indeed gotten past the acute allergic state.

    My questions are this:

    Which of the above options do you think is most likely?

    How should I go about formulating an elimination diet for her? How long should I keep her on one protein source before adding more, what should I start with?

    Any direction you guys could provide would be most helpful.
    Kate
    Baloo - 5 year old black lab
    Peanut - 7 year old minpin
    Monster - 3-ish year old frenchie/jack, rescue
    We're Superdogs!


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  3. #2
    YellowJakesMom's Avatar
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    DefaultRe: Need help with possible elimination diet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo317

    What did we change? I put her on a turkey-based dehydrated raw food starting monday morning, *just in case* it was something in her diet, even though she hadn't had anything new. So, it's looking like what happened is 1 of 3 options:

    1) She is allergic to, or has developed an allergy to something in her regular raw diet, even though there was nothing really "new". The reaction took a bit of time to build up..?
    I pick #1 - or an unknown environmental/contact allergy. Here's why

    When the body is having a severe allergic reaction (type I hypersensitivity) to something it is due to an isotype of immunoglobulins called IgE, when the body sees an allergen (antigen) IgE on other cells (mast cells) can bind it can cause the cells to react and cause a massive inflammatory reaction. You aren't born with IgE (antibody to a specific antigen, like bee sting venom), the way you are with some other immunoglobulins so that's why it (usually) takes more than one exposure to, say a bee sting, before you have that really bad reaction.

    At least, that's my understanding of it. (We have an exam on Friday, so I'll see exactly how well I explained it then)

    Personally, I'm of the "If you have a diet that's working for her, why change it?" camp. But if you definitely want to change, I would keep her on the food she's not reacting to for a few weeks to give her system time to settle. Then I would add one protein source, and wait at least a few weeks.

    For Jake, for instance, he's been 12 weeks on HA, now I'm adding beef to his food every day for at least 12 weeks. If he's not got gunky ears between now and then I might try something else - either another protein source, a carb in a kibble I would feed, or a beef-based kibble (since I kibble feed).

    I'd go back to whatever you fed raw first when you reintroduce (chicken I'm guessing), wait a few weeks, add something else, wait a few weeks, etc. Just my guesses The protocol might be totally different in raw circles for food trials.

    And "Peanut allergy" cracks me up Glad she's feeling better.

    Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find that money cannot be eaten. - Cree prophecy

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    Baloo317's Avatar
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    DefaultRe: Need help with possible elimination diet...

    Thanks! I am sooo not a science-type, but that explanation made sense to me! (mostly...)

    I really want her on a raw diet for numerous reasons discussed ad nauseam in this section of the forum, and one of the things I love is that I can customize it to her needs, as opposed to poring over a list of ingredients and worrying and wondering what it could be, you know? The dehydrated stuff is their "travel food", I just tried her on it out of desperation, after cleaning the house top to bottom, changing my shampoo, deodorant, ceasing the use of any and all perfumes and using vinegar and water to clean. :surprise: :death:

    Few weeks, eh? I can do that.

    I have a feeling it was either the beef or the chicken liver. Hmm...

    Can I start with just chicken muscle meat and rmbs? (like wings, etc) and leave out the liver for awhile..... or use heart as the organ mean maybe..?

    Kate
    Baloo - 5 year old black lab
    Peanut - 7 year old minpin
    Monster - 3-ish year old frenchie/jack, rescue
    We're Superdogs!


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    brody's Avatar
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    DefaultRe: Need help with possible elimination diet...

    if she has been fed a balanced diet in her life you cna certainly put her on a two source diet for quite awhile without doing serious damage

    Sally to this day eats chicken and sweet potato (and minerals for balance)... for a long time she only ate dark meat chicken and sweet potato - it wasn't ideal as she was too young but it saved her life - so I did it

    the yahoo group k9 kitchen has excellent prior posts on elimination diets...
    http://andrea-agilityaddict.blogspot.com/

    “I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.” H. Keller

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    YellowJakesMom's Avatar
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    DefaultRe: Need help with possible elimination diet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo317
    Thanks! I am sooo not a science-type, but that explanation made sense to me! (mostly...)
    Glad it helped Helped me study too!

    Can I start with just chicken muscle meat and rmbs? (like wings, etc) and leave out the liver for awhile..... or use heart as the organ mean maybe..?
    I would be tempted to just add chicken meat for a few weeks with the raw patties, then add chicken wings or other chicken with bone and wean out the patties. Then after that I would try the liver. Then after that the beef (just meat), then other stuff. It would make it a really long process, but it's so frustrating to do a food trial and have a reaction and realize that *technically* you added more than one thing - so you're not really sure what caused it.

    Of course, I'm also super paranoid - with Jake I want to know exactly what's bothering him, which is why we're just doing ground beef added to his HA kibble instead of starting a beef-based diet like the derm vet suggested. And like you we only clean with vinegar and baking soda around here now too I guess it's better for all of us in the long term though!

    Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find that money cannot be eaten. - Cree prophecy

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    Baloo317's Avatar
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    DefaultRe: Need help with possible elimination diet...

    The problem that I see with that is that the pre prepared patties contain meat, ground bone, and organs. Argh. :death:

    But I guess I kind of have to do that right? I mean, I can't just feed her chicken muscle meat for a few weeks. I would think that would be totally imbalanced..?

    Hmm.
    Kate
    Baloo - 5 year old black lab
    Peanut - 7 year old minpin
    Monster - 3-ish year old frenchie/jack, rescue
    We're Superdogs!


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    YellowJakesMom's Avatar
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    DefaultRe: Need help with possible elimination diet...

    Are the patties just turkey? Or do they have other meats in them? Maybe she doesn't have a problem with turkey and you're lucky And that can still serve as a base for adding things in?

    I only know what I've read (a very little) on raw and it seems 3-4 weeks on chicken meat only would be bad. If you wait a few weeks on just the patties to be sure she's not reacting to them, then you could use them as your base (to be sure she gets all she needs) and add "extras" to experiment with (chicken, then liver, etc.). Would that work??

    Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find that money cannot be eaten. - Cree prophecy

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    Baloo317's Avatar
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    DefaultRe: Need help with possible elimination diet...

    Quote Originally Posted by yellojakesmom
    Are the patties just turkey? Or do they have other meats in them? Maybe she doesn't have a problem with turkey and you're lucky And that can still serve as a base for adding things in?

    I only know what I've read (a very little) on raw and it seems 3-4 weeks on chicken meat only would be bad. If you wait a few weeks on just the patties to be sure she's not reacting to them, then you could use them as your base (to be sure she gets all she needs) and add "extras" to experiment with (chicken, then liver, etc.). Would that work??
    hmm... the dehydrated stuff is turkey and veggies and whatnot. Maybe I'll do a week on that and then switch her to pre-prepared turkey patties (very similar stuff), do that for a few weeks and then go from there, add things in slowly.

    Sounds like a plan.
    Kate
    Baloo - 5 year old black lab
    Peanut - 7 year old minpin
    Monster - 3-ish year old frenchie/jack, rescue
    We're Superdogs!


  11. #9
    Baloo317's Avatar
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    DefaultRe: Need help with possible elimination diet...

    Ok, so urban carnivore doesn't carry a turkey version. Dang.

    What do you guys think about me putting her on a completely novel protein (elk or bison?) instead? They have chicken, but I'd like to steer clear of chicken for now.
    Kate
    Baloo - 5 year old black lab
    Peanut - 7 year old minpin
    Monster - 3-ish year old frenchie/jack, rescue
    We're Superdogs!


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    YellowJakesMom's Avatar
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    DefaultRe: Need help with possible elimination diet...

    I know you want her on raw, but why not for the next month or so keep her on the dehydrated stuff that you know for sure she's not reacting to - and reintroduce stuff with that? Is it cost prohibitive? I know as a raw feeder you don't like the veggies etc. in it - but if she's not reacting to it I'd just use that as a base for reintroduction. Seems like it might be faster in the long run than trying to find a novel source and then waiting to see if she reacts to that premade and then starting adding new stuff in kwim? But I'm also of the opinion that a few weeks-months of high quality kibble wont kill anyone :secret:

    If you do decide to do a novel protein I'd steer clear of duck, Jake has chicken issues and we were told duck protein is too similar to chicken for most sensitive dogs

    Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find that money cannot be eaten. - Cree prophecy

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