For an overweight dog veggies (as a filler) may be a wise idea too!!
Caleb's holistic vet always thinks he's over weight as does the OTCh trainer we go to (but he is not--he's just built like a tank!). ;D ;D When they find out how little he eats, they are amazed! Maybe that is part of the reason she said to get him back on vegies!
Here is my two cents 8)
I find that labs generally only need 1% of their body weight (not including my intact teenage males who will eat 2%) and mine are quite active.
In regard to veggies, I wish I could say I believe they are of no value because then I wouldn't have to make the bloody things anymore : :P
My belief is that our dogs do not get a complete diet, even on raw. For example, if you feed a grain fed animal instead of grass fed, it throws the EFA's off and is one of the reasons we need to supplement with fish oil. Whenever possible, try to find grass-fed animals as they will have a higher Omega 3 content.
I for one can not feed all organic, hormone free meat. It is a matter of economics and of supply sadly. Even if it is organic, there is still enough lead in the air and the earth to create a toxin load in our dogs. Green leafy veggies are so important for detoxifying the liver and the kidneys which take the brunt of the abuse from toxins that build up from household cleaners, preventives and poisons, environmental pollution, vaccine damage, etc., etc. I did get away from veggies but am now back to giving them as kidney disease is very common in our breed especially and I do worry about environmental toxins. These organs can handle a lot of toxins, but only so much.
Speaking of liver, please make sure that the liver you feed is from organic sources and if that is not possible, from young animals. The liver is designed to filter out all these toxins and if you feed liver from a cow who has been vaccinated to the hilt and pumped up on hormones and steroids, guess where all that stuff is stored
Organic is expensive, but if you feed liver, it is worth the money to feed organic. I would forego the liver personally if I couldn't find organic or calf liver.
Just follow these simple guidelines and use the following foods:
1 The majority of his diet (about 50-60%) should be raw, meaty bones (RMB). This can include chicken backs, wings and necks (or even whole carcasses), lamb necks, pork necks, turkey necks, ox tails, any meaty bone that can be completely consumed by your dog. Large, weight bearing bones such as marrow and knuckle bones are not considered RMB’s as the dog is not able to consume the bone. These can be given as a recreational bone and thrown away when the meat has been stripped. Just be aware that these bones can cause chipped or broken teeth. Beef neck bones are a safer recreational bone.
2 Raw fish (preferable whole) should be fed for 1 or 2 meals per week. Avoid raw salmon. Mackerel is a good, cheap source. Many fish can cause an enzyme imbalance (due to thiaminase which inhibits vitamin B absorption)…please be careful about the type of fish you feed and don't get carried away with it.
3 Raw offal (organ meat including liver and kidneys) from a variety of meat sources should be fed 1 or 2 meals per week or 10 % of the diet. Heart can be used as a muscle meat and fed more often.
4 Raw green tripe (Try to find green tripe, not the bleached human stuff. It is very stinky, but very nutritious) should be fed several meals per week.
5 Raw muscle meat from a variety of sources should be fed once or twice per week.
6 Raw eggs with shells (a perfect ratio of phosphorous to calcium) should be fed about 2 meals per week.
7 Yoghurt can be added several times per week but is not necessary. I don't feed it that often nowadays.
8 Fruits and vegetables. Vegetables must be run through a juicer or food processor or lightly steamed . Dogs do not have the digestive enzymes necessary to break down the cell walls of cellulose and will not get the nutritional value from the vegetables if they are not physically broken down. In the wild, most of the vegetable matter that dogs eat would be the stomach contents of their kill, which would already be broken down. Veggies and fruits are optional and can be served several times per week in meals.
9 Grains. Grains are not a natural part of the dog’s diet and should not be included in their diets. Grains are often responsible for many allergies, arthritis, and other auto-immune diseases and are best avoided. This is the biggest health benefit of raw feeding: most commercial diets have a very high grain content.
When your puppy is over six months old and you begin feeding twice a day, I suggest feeding the RMB meals in the mornings. The afternoon meal will vary. Two or three days a week it will include green tripe and once a week it will include offal. Twice a week it will contain eggs or fish. Two or three days a week it will include muscle meat. I may add yoghurt two or three days per week and add some veggies four or five times per week. If I don’t have RMB’s available in the morning, I may just give them some eggs and veggies, then give them double RMB’s the following day…the dogs won’t care. Remember, balance over time.
As you can see, raw feeding is quite simple. If it still seems complicated, try to visualize what a dog would eat in the wild. Picture a rabbit or chicken whole, before it gets cut up and put into plastic containers. Try to feed your dog the rough percentage of bone, meat, organ meat and stomach contents that would occur naturally in small prey: this is called the ‘prey model’. This is what we strive to recreate for our dogs with raw feeding.
Remember to feed a variety of meats, not just different parts of a chicken or turkey. Try deer, pork, rabbit, goat, duck, turkey, beef, moose, a variety of fish and any other meat that you can get your hands on.
It can be frightening watching your dog eat chicken bones the first time, but remember this is what dogs are designed to eat. Yes, dogs can choke on chicken bones or just about anything else including kibble. A good rule of thumb is to either feed very large pieces or very small, to avoid gulping or choking. Pieces that are too large are almost always regurgitated by dogs, so relax and enjoy watching him enjoy his dinner! And remember: NEVER feed cooked bones of any type. Raw bones are soft enough to bend and digest easily. For optimal safety meal times should always be supervised.
To err is human:To forgive, canine."
Dana, that is good!
I know what you mean. Bo is 80 pounds, and he gets 38 oz of food a day. And I still think he is on the skinny side sometimes.Originally Posted by Yellow Boys Mom
I wish I could feed only 3/4 pound. My food bill would be cheap.
It is amazing how little this dog eats and he is still such a chunk!Originally Posted by CenTexLabs
This is a great thread, but where the heck do you guys get this stuff? Tripe? Organs? Do you pay for it?
Mine you, I am feeding 4 dogs. An 80 pounder, a 70 pounder, and 2 65 pounders. One who needs to lose about 15 pounds. My meat bill is outrageous, even at wholesale prices. You are quite lucky!Originally Posted by Yellow Boys Mom
I get mine in bulk from a meat wholesaler. I pay about 40 cents a pound for my chicken backs and necks, 69 cents a pound for livers and hearts, and about the same for gizzards. Anything "extra" I find at the grocery store. I usually don't want to buy my beef or other game in bulk. (don't have the freezer space). I haven't tried green tripe yet (don't think I could stomach the smell), but there is a website that will ship it to you.Originally Posted by deific
I live in an area that has a huge chicken farm just south. They raise their chickens without hormones, etc. So, I can get my backs for around $.49 or $.59 per pound. I have an obedience training center and carry some dog food, so I also carry tripe. I do go to the health food store for his liver though. It's the only liver he'll eat. I also order from Hare Today some stuff. I know having Gerber's so close is a huge benefit. I know when I have fed Evo, that's really expensive so the raw does not seem that bad cause of what I would feed if I were feeding a dog food.Originally Posted by deific
Great post from FallRiver so nothing constructive to add.Some of it. One of the local farms we use for supplies lets us have the "junk" they don't need for free -- that means lots of organs, necks, carcasses, etc. Butchers are pretty good for free stuff. I got some beef backbones from there the other day for free...man the dogs looked bloated after eating them. The bones were huge.This is a great thread, but where the heck do you guys get this stuff? Tripe? Organs? Do you pay for it?