raw and Innova EVO Red Meat...ok for puppies?
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Thread: raw and Innova EVO Red Meat...ok for puppies?

  1. #1
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    Defaultraw and Innova EVO Red Meat...ok for puppies?

    Hello everyone. As some of you might know, I have been switching Riley to a primarily raw diet, and things are going great. I previously had him on Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul. I had been planning on switching him to only raw, but after some thinking, I would like to keep him on about 25% premium dog food.

    My question is this...would it be ok to feed a 6 month old puppy Innova EVO RM? I know the protein is sky high, but what would be the difference between that and a raw-only diet? I know people feed puppies his age just raw, and the protein amounts must be at least that in the raw diet.

    He has some trouble with itchy skin, and my guess (although I'm not sure) is that it is from a grain allergy or intolerance. The reason I think this is because it improved quite a bit after the introduction of raw, which he is now on for about 50% of his daily intake. I doubt it is any of the protein sources because he has done fine with chicken, turkey, beef, tilapia, mackeral, eggs, and cottage cheese in his raw.

    The Innova EVO has no grains and also contains some meat sources that I am not able to get ahold of around here (venison, lamb, etc.). My only concern is that my puppy is still growing, and I do not want to put stress on his joints and bones. On the other hand, I am not really seeing the difference in protein levels between the Innova and a raw diet, which is highly recommended for all ages of dogs. If anyone has any words of advice, I'd appreciate it!
    Kari and Riley

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  3. #2
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    DefaultRe: raw and Innova EVO Red Meat...ok for puppies?

    Protein doesn't have anything to do with it. That was the thought years ago, but research showed no correlation between the amount of protein and growth-related problems (pano, hip dysplasia, etc.).

    What is a major factor in causing problems is calcium. Puppies fed too much calcium (especially those puppies younger than 9 months) tend to have more growth-related problems than puppies fed an appropriate level. At 2.31%, the level of calcium is almost double what it should be. For that reason alone I would not feed it to a Lab puppy (or large breed puppies).

  4. #3
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    DefaultRe: raw and Innova EVO Red Meat...ok for puppies?

    I think I read calcium should be less than 1.5 for growing pups...I also would not feed it until the dog was 18 months....

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    DefaultRe: raw and Innova EVO Red Meat...ok for puppies?

    Quote Originally Posted by gerst001
    I think I read calcium should be less than 1.5 for growing pups...I also would not feed it until the dog was 18 months....
    That's usually the high-end (as you mentioned)...you'll hear recommendations anywhere from 0.8% - 1.5%. The problem is that the percentage are dispositive, rather it's the total amount so you have to take into account the calories in the food. If you have to feed more of a food, you're feeding more calcium. With EVO, even though it is a calorically dense food (which is another bad thing for Lab pups), it's got so much calcium that I don't think the fact that you feed less of it makes up for all that calcium.

    I also would not feed it until the dog was 18 months.
    There's nothing wrong with waiting that long, but sometime around 6-9 months, puppies develop a mechanism for excreting that extra calcium. Prior to that, it gets stored in their bones which promotes early ossification - and that's the source of some problems with high calcium diets in puppies. I think you could safely switch earlier than 18 months, but a lot of that is probably dictated by the breeder (and rightfully so in many cases).
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

  7. #5
    Labsrme is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: raw and Innova EVO Red Meat...ok for puppies?

    EVO is not meant to be fed to large breed puppies. If you check the Natura website they recommend that you not feed it to large breed puppies.

  8. #6
    ObedienceLabs4Me is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: raw and Innova EVO Red Meat...ok for puppies?

    Though they say not to feed to puppies I have known people who have without a problem and actually on their vet's recommendations.
    Susan
    UCDX GRCH Dunn's Marsh Caleb of Waltona UDX3, OM3, RAE Canadian UD, RE
    FallRiver's Micah of Waltona GN RAE, Canadian CD, RN

    www.labmed.org


  9. #7
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    DefaultRe: raw and Innova EVO Red Meat...ok for puppies?

    I will definitely not feed it if it is not safe for him, but would it be ok to increase the amount of muscle meat I feed so that the calcium is less percentage-wise? I am only feeding about 25% dry, and he has a few skin issues with grains....I thought maybe if I increased the other components of his diet, decreased his eggs to maybe 1 or 2 a week instead of 3 or 4 (I know the shells have calcium), and eventually weaned him to completely Innova EVO for his dry meal, it would even out the calcium?? Or would this still be too much? I ask because I already got the bag without realizing it wasn't for large breed puppies (it said it was appropriate for all life stages) and don't really want to waste it. If it is definitely not appropriate, I guess I would rather waste the $30 than to have issues with him, but I wanted to check first.
    Also, at almost 6 months, is he through his big growth spurts? It seems like his growth has slowed down a little, but are we getting ready for another bigger one? He seemed to really grow the first month I had him (from 43 pounds to around 50 pounds in a month), and now he's at about 53 seven weeks from when I got him. His estimated adult weight is between 90 and 95 based on mom and dad's weights.

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    DefaultRe: raw and Innova EVO Red Meat...ok for puppies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow Boys Mom
    Though they say not to feed to puppies I have known people who have without a problem and actually on their vet's recommendations.
    It's like Russian roulette. Sure, it won't kill you every time, but you're playing with statistics. EVO won't automatically cause problems, but if your dog has a genetic predisposition to hip dysplasia (and we don't know what those genes are so no one knows) then the calcium increases the risk of serious problems resulting. There are other things aside from HD, but I'm most familiar with that since Jes has it and that's the research I'm most likely to read, and the conversations I'm most likely to have with his Ortho vet. I'm actually quite shocked that a vet would recommend that.

    I will definitely not feed it if it is not safe for him, but would it be ok to increase the amount of muscle meat I feed so that the calcium is less percentage-wise? I am only feeding about 25% dry, and he has a few skin issues with grains....I thought maybe if I increased the other components of his diet, decreased his eggs to maybe 1 or 2 a week instead of 3 or 4 (I know the shells have calcium), and eventually weaned him to completely Innova EVO for his dry meal, it would even out the calcium??
    The short answer, I don't know. That's one reason I won't feed raw to puppies, it's just too hard to calculate, it's pretty much guesswork. If he's only getting 25% of his food from EVO, that alone would not provide enough calcium for problems. Calcium is one of those things where it's the total amount that is the concern, not necessarily the exact percentage. If you up it to 50%, then it's getting questionable, but probably still alright so long as he's not getting much calcium from the raw portion.

    The safest thing, IMO, would be to talk to a holistic vet if there is one nearby. It's not my job, nor am I trained to formulate appropriate diets for Lab puppies, so I hate to tell you something that isn't correct.

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    ObedienceLabs4Me is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: raw and Innova EVO Red Meat...ok for puppies?

    There are a number of breeders who do wean their puppies onto raw. One I know of is an Aussie breeder in Wisconsin and another is a Lab breeder I believe in Ontario. I know that the Aussie breeder has been doing it for many many years. One of my staff memebers has one of her dogs. This Aussie has been on raw since she was weaned.
    Susan
    UCDX GRCH Dunn's Marsh Caleb of Waltona UDX3, OM3, RAE Canadian UD, RE
    FallRiver's Micah of Waltona GN RAE, Canadian CD, RN

    www.labmed.org


  12. #10
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    Dani is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: raw and Innova EVO Red Meat...ok for puppies?

    You say the grains are affecting your pup, but a true balanced raw diet has some grains (or should have) in it.
    Dani, Rider & Rookie
    SHR Watson's Safari Rider, JH, WC, CL1-R, RA, CGC, TDI
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