Titers Question - Lepto in Particular
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Thread: Titers Question - Lepto in Particular

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    imported_Top Of The Hill is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultTiters Question - Lepto in Particular

    About 6 weeks ago I went into our Vet's and had him run titers for Parvo, Distemper, Lepto, and Adenovirus. The results of the Parvo and Distemper came back almost immediately, but I have only just received the results of the Lepto and Adenovirus. I'm not sure why they took so long, but anyway I have them now. I'm confused by the results for the Lepto as it lists a number of strains/serovars and they are all "[email protected] <1:00. My Vet has written a letter (to use for kenneling if necessary) indicating that the titers for the Parvo, Distemper, and Adenovirus are protective. For the Lepto he has noted that she was "evaluated for six strains and was negative on all of these....indicating no previous exposure and therefore no shedding of the disease." His receptionist/vet tech (not sure what she is) was really rude and abrupt when I questioned whether this meant that my dog was considered protected (or not). Due to her attitude and being embarrassed in front of a room full of people I just left, but it seemed like a very simple question to me. If she didn't understand all she had to do was say she'd check with the Vet when he had time. This is the second time this same women has been rude when I've asked about something to do with titers. I think part of it is that it's very uncommon here for someone to go this route, but having these titers done cost a heck of a lot more than just having the vaccination, and I think my question was pretty straight forward. I mean it's all good and well that my dog hasn't been exposed to Lepto, but the point of titers is also to know if she herself is still protected. I was really upset, embarrassed and mad when I left there. I have no idea what her problem with this is, but she has no right to be rude. I certainly wasn't. I told her I could just make an appointment if necessary and ask the Vet my question and she said he was busy so it sure wasn't going to be soon. Anyway, can anyone comment on the Lepto result etc. please?Does anyone know what this indicates in terms of my dog being protected from Lepto? TIA

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    henrysmom is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Titers Question - Lepto in Particular

    OK, this may be a totally stupid question, but has your dog had the lepto vaccine? If not, or if it has been more than a year (I think lepto is only "good" for a year??) maybe that's why the titer showed that there was no previous exposure?

    Hope someone more knowledgeable chimes in... I'm taking Henery tomorrow actually to have his blood drawn for his titers!



    Gorsebrook Jackson Triggs, CD, RN, WC, CGN<br />Kelrobin A Twist of Fate<br /><br />

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    imported_Top Of The Hill is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Titers Question - Lepto in Particular

    Felicia, yes she has had the lepto shot in the combo shots up to now. Her last lepto shot was June 2007. Now I knew they were probably only good for a year, and in the interim he has gone to a vaccine that doesn't contain the lepto (for whatever reason). I kind of wondered what the point in doing a lepto titer was considering this, but figured I may as well do them all. My assumption would be that the negative reading means she would be susceptible if exposed......but this hasn't been explained to me. My question was simply "Is my dog protected still?" Seems like a simple and obvious question to me. I'm being made feel like a PITA by this staff member for asking any questions regarding the results....which is really bothering me because I shouldn't be made to feel that way....nor spoken to rudely. I can't believe that it seems I'm more knowledgeable on this than they are. I have to say that our Vet has been fine. While another of the staff members seems totally boggled by the whole titer thing, she is always polite. I'm really ticked right now at this woman's attitude. While lepto isn't really a problem here, it could be an issue if we travel to an area where it is a problem. I feel like they think I'm bizarre for doing this, and wasting their time. I'm hoping they aren't reflecting our Vet's opinion.

    I would really be interested in knowing how you receive your results from the Vet....i.e. with any explanation etc. I had to ask for the letter because originally I just got a verbal report from them. Then I asked for a copy of the results, but a lay person wouldn't know what it all meant. Not happy about all this right now. :no: What titers are you having done?

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    henrysmom is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Titers Question - Lepto in Particular

    Sorry you got such a rude response from the receptionist/vet tech. That really sucks and was not an appropriate response, IMO. :no: If she didn't know, she should have found out, instead of belittling you.

    I'm confused now as well, since *if* the lepto vaccine is good for at least a year (I'm saying at least since all other vaccines are effective for longer than their recommended revacc schedule), and your dog was vaccinated last June, it has only been 14 months since, wouldn't we expect to see *something*??

    By the way, I think your question was perfectly legitimate!! That's exactly what I would have asked as well!

    I don't think there are many patients in our vet's practice doing titers. She is on a 3 year revaccination schedule, which is great, and very progressive for this area, even despite the recommendations that vaccines should not be given automatically annually. But I don't think there are many patients doing titers. There was some confusion today when I dropped in to pick up some de-skunking spray for Henery (oh! another story!) and the receptionist wondered which titers I was coming in for tomorrow.

    I'm having distemper, parvo, adenovirus and lepto titers done for Henry. It should be interesting to see the difference in results between Hen and your dog, since Henry had his last lepto vaccine in Nov/Dec of last year (8-9 months ago). I will let you know how I get the results and what they are!

    Again, sorry you got such a hard time from that lady.
    Gorsebrook Jackson Triggs, CD, RN, WC, CGN<br />Kelrobin A Twist of Fate<br /><br />

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    imported_Top Of The Hill is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Titers Question - Lepto in Particular

    Felicia, I'm puzzled by that too being as it's only 14 months since the vaccine was given......and at the time of the blood being drawn it was only 12 months. I did expect to see something...maybe not a strong titer, but something! I mean the vaccine is supposed to last at least a year I thought, but if nothing showed up, the vaccine immunity (as far as I can figure) must have been gone for awhile. Judging by here you should get the parvo and distemper results very quickly. The other two took about a month. Yes, let's compare when you get your results. Curious.....did you have your other vaccines done in Nov/Dec.? You decided to test before the year was up?

    I'm tempted to complain about the way I was spoken to, but I know this lady from elsewhere and she's seemed okay outside of work. I really don't know what her problem is, but I don't want to deal with her. She really put a damper on my day. It's hard to believe I can be the only one around here doing titers, but I guess it's expensive and likely most people that don't want to vaccinate every year just skip it and don't bother spending the money on titer testing.

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    Dani is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Titers Question - Lepto in Particular

    Sorry about that...and you SHOULD complain. There is no reason for that.

    As for the lepto, Rider's titer came back borderline as the vet had switched from 2L to 4L the year before so he'd only had 1 exposure to the the 4L. We only ended up boostering the lepto, which in turn gave Rider the runs for a day. The Adrenovirus should have came up as protective though, because that's give in the combo virus from when they are pups. Didn't you get a printout of the test results? If not, ask for them. And then ask to review them with the lab or your vet, not the receptionist.
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    henrysmom is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Titers Question - Lepto in Particular

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Of The Hill
    Curious.....did you have your other vaccines done in Nov/Dec.? You decided to test before the year was up?
    Nope, the last time Henry had the DAPP vacc was in August of 2005. He had the lepto booster last October (I just checked his vet records) but had a horrible reaction to it, so I'd be glad not to have to give it to him again.

    I would say something to your vet since this is the 2nd time this lady has been rude/short with you. I'm sure that he/she would want to know how his patients/clients are being treated in the recepetion area. I know I sure would want to know.

    Gorsebrook Jackson Triggs, CD, RN, WC, CGN<br />Kelrobin A Twist of Fate<br /><br />

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    imported_Top Of The Hill is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Titers Question - Lepto in Particular

    Quote Originally Posted by Dani
    Sorry about that...and you SHOULD complain. There is no reason for that.

    As for the lepto, Rider's titer came back borderline as the vet had switched from 2L to 4L the year before so he'd only had 1 exposure to the the 4L. We only ended up boostering the lepto, which in turn gave Rider the runs for a day. The Adrenovirus should have came up as protective though, because that's give in the combo virus from when they are pups. Didn't you get a printout of the test results? If not, ask for them. And then ask to review them with the lab or your vet, not the receptionist.
    I'm very tempted to complain. She literally bit my head off in front of a full room of people. I've cooled off a bit since yesterday, but no there was absolutely no reason for it. They were very busy, but I had waited patiently for half an hour while they helped other people and tried to locate my paperwork. Next time I'm talking to my Vet I'll likely mention it and how embarrassed I was. He's always extremely nice and professional and I've gone to him for 25+ years and never had anyone there talk to me like that. I know her outside of the clinic and have always liked her (not that I know her well), but her attitude was anything but polite. She gave the impression I was asking a bizarre question.....when to me it seemed an obvious one.

    As for the results.....yes I did get a copy of them. Adenovirus came up as 64; which is apparently fine. The lepto result lists 6 strains/serovars. Every one of them came back with the reading of [email protected] <1:00. Now I know that she has had the lepto vaccine with the 4 strains/serovars covered numerous times, so I would have thought that 4 out of the 6 strains titered would have had some reading. It was almost exactly 12 months since the actual vaccine was given when she had the blood drawn to check the titers. I'm guessing that negative means she isn't covered, and in the letter the Vet wrote basically that......that she was tested and came up negative on all 6 indicating no exposure thus no shedding of the virus. However, part of the reason for doing the titering is to ascertain whether your own dog is protected, so that was my question to the receptionist/Vet tech. (which she should have just politely said she would question the Vet on later when he wasn't busy) I know there are numerous strains of lepto, so now I'm wondering if the strains they tested for are the same ones she had been vaccinated for over the last three years. Or is it possible that all the antibodies could be out of my dog's system in 12 months? There is a bit of a blurb written underneath which includes the statement that "titers post vaccination are variable, and in some animals may be higher than the titers associated with the disease." Lepto isn't a big problem where I am and apparently they stopped including it in the vaccination as of this year, but still they don't know if I'll be traveling to an area where it is a problem....thus needing a booster if the titers do mean that she isn't protected. I'll get in to talk to my Vet at some point, but I was so upset yesterday that I just walked out.

    Felicia....it will really be interesting to hear where Henry's titer's fall being as he hasn't had vaccines (other than Lepto) for 3 years. Also interesting to hear what serovars they titer for with the Lepto and what result you get.

    Thank you both for replying. I hate not understanding stuff fully.

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    everydog is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Titers Question - Lepto in Particular

    Lepto (like bordetella) is a bacterin vaccine and is not expected to give the same duration of immunity as vaccines for viruses like parvo. Duration of immunity is listed as less than one year, sometimes less than 6 months, so your results seem expected, and I'm not sure why the titer was even run? In any case, no one needed to be rude about this.

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    imported_Top Of The Hill is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Titers Question - Lepto in Particular

    Quote Originally Posted by everydog
    Lepto (like bordetella) is a bacterin vaccine and is not expected to give the same duration of immunity as vaccines for viruses like parvo. Duration of immunity is listed as less than one year, sometimes less than 6 months, so your results seem expected, and I'm not sure why the titer was even run? In any case, no one needed to be rude about this.
    Perhaps this is why they all showed up as negative. I knew the vaccine only lasted about a year, so I'm not sure how she came to have it done. Others on JL seemed to be testing for it though, so I guess I didn't give it that much thought. Perhaps he was testing to see if she had ever been exposed.

    Update:

    I just received a call from the Vet's office from the lady who was rude to me yesterday, and she apologized for the way she spoke to me when I was there....said something else had rattled her etc., and that she should never have spoken to me that way. I told her how embarrassed I was at being snapped at in front of room full of people and how crappy I felt when I left there, and she apologized again. Anyway I thanked her for apologizing. It made me feel better as I really wondered if she had a problem with me, and also because I know her somewhat outside of her work and have always liked her okay. This is the second time she's seemed irritated with me though, but the first time was nothing like yesterday. Anyway, hopefully it won't happen again and at least she apologized.

    Regarding the Lepto......they filled me in on that and it sounds like it's a very short term duration vaccine (so apparently not surprising that she came up negative....not even at just a year. Having the titer done in this case was probably kind of pointless. For various reasons my Vet no longer routinely does the lepto, so I guess that's fine, and I'll question it again if I travel anywhere and take the dog.

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