Avoiding Dangerous Veterinarians
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Thread: Avoiding Dangerous Veterinarians

  1. #1
    Kris L. Christine's Avatar
    Kris L. Christine is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultAvoiding Dangerous Veterinarians

    "Avoiding Dangerous Veterinarians" by Jan Rasmussen, award-winning author http://www.dogs4dogs.com:80/vet .
    Kris L. Christine
    Founder, Co-Trustee
    The Rabies Challenge Fund
    www.RabiesChallengeFund.org

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    windycanyon's Avatar
    windycanyon is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Avoiding Dangerous Veterinarians

    Is this sort of post necessary? I am personally getting fed up w/ all the slamming of vets and vaccine protocols here and elsewhere. Sorry, but it's just gotten very old.


    WindyCanyon Girls, August 2014

  4. #3
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Avoiding Dangerous Veterinarians

    Kris, this is a worthwhile video to watch. It focusses mainly on over vaccinating (an understandable concern of yours). I didn't care for its one slam against feeding a dog prepared kibble, calling it the same as people eating only "fast food."

    Many people with pets make their decisions about vet competence by how they see a vet acting with their pet and themselves. If the vet is warm, friendly, and seems genuinely concerned, then they assume the vet is good, competent, and trustworthy.

    But there are vets with great "dogside manners" who are grossly incompetent. There's no significant correlation between professional competence and good dogside manner.

    Vets who lack good dogside manners with pets and their owners usually don't go into or stay in clinical practice. The lack of income drives them out.

    Not so with those who are unethical or lack broad competence, etc., as long as they can quickly create relationships of trust.

    Example 1:
    The vet we used for several years for Bess had a great dogside manner with Bess and us. He was not very competent, though. When he correctly diagnosed Bess as having mammary tumors/cancer, he wanted to operate. But I'd grown uneasy with his competence and had the surgery done at K-State's CVM Teaching Hospital. There they discovered the cancer had metastasized to her lymph so they did a partial lymphectomy as well as a radical mastectomy. Bess, age 7, lived 6 1/2 more years.

    Based on that experience, I drive 50 miles (1 hour) to K-State for all of Puff's vet needs. Even there, I find it best to evaluate what they're doing.

    Example 2:
    I recently recounted that Puff had red zits on her belly and we saw an excellent veterinarian, Dr. G, who has a diplomate in veterinary internal medicine (diplomate = highest professional level). 3X in 4 months she put Puff on an antibiotic until I asked to see a dermatologist who correctly identified the cause and suggested a treatment that did not involve eternal doses of an antibiotic.

    K-State's vets, while usually right, have occasionally missed some things that I've found answers to on JL forums. While asking for health advice on the internet is sometimes helpful, it's NOT a great substitute for having a good reference guide, a good vet, as well asking other JL'ers.

    These are two references that I like and use:

    Giffin & Carlson, "Dog Owner's Home Veterinary Handbook," 3rd edition, 2000, 570+ pp, $30 list, $25 Amazon (US$). It includes a useful 44 page chapter on emergencies and first aid but it primarily covers all health and development areas and body systems from birth to old age, nursing through whelping. This book saves worry, money from vet bills, and your dog's health; it repays its price many times over. Every dog should come with one; every dog owner should refer to it whenever needed.

    Bruce Fogle, "First Aid for Dogs: What to Do When Emergencies Happen" 1995. 200+pp. $10 (US). Extremely useful in emergencies -- many decision trees of symptoms to check and conditions that are ruled out or in, what to do temporarily, the urgency of vet care, very clear illustrations.

    It's hard for me to to imagine a more useful guide for emergency canine first aid than Fogle's
    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

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    talleyJudy's Avatar
    talleyJudy is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Avoiding Dangerous Veterinarians

    Quote Originally Posted by birdbrainz
    Is this sort of post necessary? I am personally getting fed up w/ all the slamming of vets and vaccine protocols here and elsewhere. Sorry, but it's just gotten very old.
    Ummm, yeah, "this sort of post" is necessary, and quite appropriate for a 'dog forum' where dog owners log on to socialize with each other and hopefully to learn about the latest progress and experiences of others concerning ohhh, things like nutrition, training, and possibly even *gasp* veterinary care.

    After watching the linked video I came away with the conclusion that all vets are not "created equally" as is also borne out by my own life experiences.... the 'novice' needs to know that not all veterinarians are 'god'. And I for one am thrilled to learn of Veterinary University protocols changing early on, not 15 years down the line. :educated:

    "" Sorry, but it's just gotten very old."" On the contrary, it is still very new as medical research goes.

    If one is so bored by the subject, don't open the thread.

    For myself, I think new veterinary protocol threads should be stickyed so that those threads are 'in our faces' every day! 8)
    "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." author Will Rogers

    Auggie 12/29/95 ~ 01/15/09

  7. #5
    jlab Guest

    DefaultRe: Avoiding Dangerous Veterinarians

    Kris, thanks for the link - some excellent info there.

    Judy, thanks for your well thought out post - it needed to be said! I agree 100%!

  8. #6
    jlab Guest

    DefaultRe: Avoiding Dangerous Veterinarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Pr.
    These are two references that I like and use:

    Giffin & Carlson, "Dog Owner's Home Veterinary Handbook," 3rd edition, 2000, 570+ pp, $30 list, $25 Amazon (US$). It includes a useful 44 page chapter on emergencies and first aid but it primarily covers all health and development areas and body systems from birth to old age, nursing through whelping. This book saves worry, money from vet bills, and your dog's health; it repays its price many times over. Every dog should come with one; every dog owner should refer to it whenever needed.

    Bruce Fogle, "First Aid for Dogs: What to Do When Emergencies Happen" 1995. 200+pp. $10 (US). Extremely useful in emergencies -- many decision trees of symptoms to check and conditions that are ruled out or in, what to do temporarily, the urgency of vet care, very clear illustrations.

    It's hard for me to to imagine a more useful guide for emergency canine first aid than Fogle's
    Thanks Bob! I just went over to Amazon and ordered those books. BTW, good review of the Fogle book on amazon.com. It looks like you're selling alot of those books for them (they're listed as the most frequent bundle when buying the Fogle book). Good job!

  9. #7
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Avoiding Dangerous Veterinarians

    I just checked Amazon and see that Giffin & Carlson's "Dog Owner's Home Veterinary Handbook" has been updated and revised, adding Dr. Debra Eldridge(?) as primary author to the other 2.
    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

  10. #8
    jlab Guest

    DefaultRe: Avoiding Dangerous Veterinarians

    Ok Bob Pr., I've been wondering some time what the "Pr" in your forum name stands for?

    Is it an abbreviation for the rare earth metal Praseodymium from the Greek words prasios and didymos, which together mean "green twin"? Yeah, I'm sure that's it. Makes sense now!

  11. #9
    henrysmom is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Avoiding Dangerous Veterinarians

    I have the newer edition of Dog Owner's Home Veterinary Guide and it's pretty similar to the original, except it has more stuff on aging and diseases, natural/holistic treatments, cancer etc.

    It's a pretty good read!

    Gorsebrook Jackson Triggs, CD, RN, WC, CGN<br />Kelrobin A Twist of Fate<br /><br />

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    windycanyon's Avatar
    windycanyon is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Avoiding Dangerous Veterinarians

    My response to it "getting old" is based on the fact that almost every one of Kris' posts seem to contain some form of vet slamming, as if they were all ogres or something. I feel very sorry for anyone here who has not found a vet they can trust and call "friend". I live in an ag rural area, by the way, not a particularly high standard of living for any vet. Finding a vet is not unlike shopping for a family doctor-- get referrals-- not only from friends who may have only a very limited view of their vet, but preferrably from folks who breed who really have had time to get to see the vet handle a variety of maladies.

    I've been in Labs for over 15 yrs, and have counted my blessings as I was with my first vet until his retirement, learned a heck of alot and now have 2 vet "friends" who I can trust to do everything from OFAs to Reproductive work. I have a 3rd vet I use for his holistic expertise ~90 miles away. All 3 have slightly different areas of expertise, but the 2 conventional vets are very much into the newer protocols for vaccinations so are lighter on the recommendations in general. Guess what though? Both strongly suggested recently that I get my dogs vacc'd for Lepto w/ the 4 strain serovar as they are beginning to see some cases in our area. I just did our first dose today to my 5 younger ones (skipping the 13 yo who doesn't get out much) and will boost in 3 wks as they'd never been vacc'd for lepto. Does it worry me? Sure it does... but do I want the risk of Lepto here? Hell no. So, I'm giving the separate Lepto L4 vaccine. One of my girls will need a combo here shortly as she's not been vacc'd since 1 yo and will be bred this fall (at 3.5). It will be separated out as well. This practice I have learned from my vets as well as from reliable sources on the internet.

    My point is that there are MANY VERY GOOD vets out there, and Kris' experience w/ a vet who over vaccinated her dog should not be taken as the Standard. Educate yourself, ask questions as needed, that is great. But if you fear or distrust your veterinarian, know that it's time to find a different one. You are the dogs' owner afterall, and have the final say. Just don't jeopardize public health by making bad decisions.

    WindyCanyon Girls, August 2014

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