ANYONE FEEDING HIGH PROTEIN DIETS OR GRAIN FREE LIKE MYSELF TAKE YOUR DOG/PUP OFF IT. I WENT TO MY VET AND SHE SAID SHE HAD JUST RECENTLY SEEN 2 YOUNG PUPS WITH KIDNEY FAILURE DUE TO HIGH PROTEIN DIETS. I WILL BE TAKING BELLE OFF OF IT TODAY......NOT ENOUGH RESEARCH HAS GONE INTO THE HIGH PROTEIN AND IT'S EFFECTS. THEIR BUN LEVELS WILL NOT ELEVATE UNTIL 70 % KIDNEY DAMAGE IS DONE. I DON'T TRUST IT.
I thought it was pretty well known that most grain free diets are not fit for puppies... I don't do grain free as I've always been in the camp that thinks that some grains like oatmeal, barley and brown rice are good... Are you talking adult dogs or puppies.. Lab puppies are not supposed to have to much protein... If you are referring to adults, I have a feeling you just opened up a can of worms... Personally I've never been sold on the grain free thing...Originally Posted by baby belle
i'm not sure i agree with you here...the problems from high-protein diets are ONLY apparent in animals with pre-existing kidney problems [parallel: humans on dialysis also need to steer clear of lots of protein, but not healthy ones.]
in fact, a TON of research has been done on both protein & fat in dog diets.
one, which came out a few years ago, reversed the existing idea that older dogs need less protein [so as not to 'stress' their kidneys, among other things.]
these well-documented studies over several years showed CONCLUSIVELY that otherwise-healthy older dogs did MUCH better on high-protein diets.
another study, done about 3 years ago, on injuries in working dogs, was HALTED. the study was done on Border Collies doing Agility. they were divided into groups getting low protein [less than 15%, medium protein [21%] and high-protein diets [30% or better].
their injuries were tracked over several months. the study was Halted when ALL the dogs in the low-protein diet group developed injuries affecting their performance, and NONE of the dogs in the high-protein group did. [that's NO injuries!] the medium-protein group had a 'medium' amount of injuries, about what the general population exhibit.
several well-documented studies have showed that the primary use of protein by dogs is as a repair agent, their main [cellularly preferred] 'fuel' is fat...so it seems to me, that a healthy, active dog needs all the protein & fat he/she can get!
you can find some of these studies by going through the Tufts website, or just Googel 'dog nutrition' and look for reports from actual doctors/universites/researchers, not people trying to sell you what they cook up. others i have read about through magazines like Clean Run [the main Agility mag] and Retriever Journal--they have continuing updates on things like this.
I am talking of puppies in my case a 6 month old. I did read those threads about the dogs fed hi protein and lower but according to my vet who is a young woman so she is pretty much up to date on this just recently attended a seminar and unless the dog is doing hard work like hunting,agility or sled racing the higher protein 42% is way too much. I have read alot on it too but there is no recent results of the grain free i don't think it has been out long enough to get long term results and i don't want to chance her kidneys. I believe in humans too much protein does strain the kidneys. correct me here if i am wrong please or have input.
to quote:andAhhhhhh. . . I know what you're thinking! Too much protein! Kidney damage! Well, guess what? The very early research that pointed a finger at protein as being a cause of kidney failure in dogs wasn't even done on dogs! It was done on rats fed unnatural diets for a rodent... diets high in protein. (Were we tinkering with Nature during these “tests”?) Rats have difficulty excreting excess protein in their diets because they are essentially plant eaters, not meat eaters. Dogs are quite able to tolerate diets with protein levels higher than 30% on a dry weight basis.and from:A fable that has finally been debunked is the one that states that dogs acquire kidney problems from eating too much protein. This fable was repeated so often that it became self-sustaining and axiomatic. Finally, experts in animal nutrition have buried this myth. It simply is not true that high protein levels in dog food cause kidney problems. "The dog can digest large amounts of proteins, especially those of animal origin" stated Prof. Dominique Grandjean DVM, Ph.D., at the Fourth Annual International Sled Dog Veterinary Medical Association Symposium (page 53 of 1997 PROCEEDINGS).
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index....e=protein_mythI feed EVO, have for 2.5 years to my ADULT dog that will be 5 in May. He's done well, has blood work done annually. My 14 month old does NOT get EVO...he is on another diet and I probably won't switch him to EVO for another 18 months. Do your research.Now that we have the basics laid out, we can return to the protein in the food. Many people cite old, outdated research that claims high protein percentages in the food are harmful to dogs and do all kinds of damage, especially to the liver. Fact is that these studies were conducted by feeding dogs foods that were made from poor quality, hard to digest protein sources, such as soy, corn, byproducts, blood meal and so on.
Dani, Rider & Rookie
SHR Watson's Safari Rider, JH, WC, CL1-R, RA, CGC, TDI
SHR Endeavor Put Me In Coach, RN, WC, CGC
Member Since 6/2003
Then you haven't looked. High protein diets do not cause kidney disease. If you have a dog with existing problems or is in kidney failure, then you need to be cognizant of the amount and quality of protein you're feeding (along with Phosphorus intake).NOT ENOUGH RESEARCH HAS GONE INTO THE HIGH PROTEIN AND IT'S EFFECTS.
http://www.wysong.net/hpkidney.shtml (complete with references)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3702209 (in this study, they actually removed a kidney and a half and it still didn't have an effect)
There is plenty of research, some going back decades ago.
We recently took one of our dogs to a holistic vet to help treat arthritis that wasn't responding well to adequan or pain killers. Caleb is overweight and he had been on Purina One weight management food (1 cup am and pm) and although he was losing weight it was very, very slow. He suggested a grain-free diet or a single protein, 1 carb source diet. We choose "Taste of the Wild" for environmental reasons (bison and venizon....animals that are native to our country). He certainly loves it and has much more energy and appears to have lost some weight on the same amount of food even though it's higher calorie.
The interesting thing was this vet recommended not changing the diets of the other dogs. His thought was just some people do well on low carb, high protein...other people do not do well and need a high carb diet. It makes this nutrition game very frustrating and intriguing. I would still be careful with puppies on high protein though.
NICK- I READ THE ARTICLE FOR WYSONG. IT WAS QUITE INFORMATIVE. SO AS LONG AS THE PROTEIN IS HIGH QUALITY IT IS OK. i KNOW THAT ORIJENS PROTEINS ARE OF GREAT QUALITY AND HIGHLY DIGESTIBLE. BUT I ALSO NOTICED ALL OF THESE TESTS WERE DONE ON ADULT DOGS. WHAT ABOUT PUPPIES? WOULD YOU GIVE YOUR PUPPY THIS TYPE OF FOOD?
CAPS!!!!Originally Posted by baby belle
oops didn't mean to do that!!!