Need food suggestions
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Thread: Need food suggestions

  1. #1
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    DefaultNeed food suggestions

    I am new to this forum and i have a 6 month old yellow lab. My breeder had her on Eukanuba and she wasnt doing well. I have looked around and noticed alot of people use Orijen grain free. Is that ok for her? Any inputs would be helpful. thanks

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  3. #2
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Need food suggestions

    Some members of this forum recommend not feeding a Large Breed Puppy food while there are considerably more who insist on it.

    Some say that Labs are a "medium breed" and not a "large breed" dog. While that's correct as far as dog clubs are concerned, it is not as far as canine nutritional scientests; for them, Labs are large breed.

    Most all scientific studies on puppy nutrition recommend a Larger Breed formula for Large breed dogs (and medium breed dogs like Labs). I'm not aware of any scientific studies done on sufficient numbers of dogs which found in favor of adult foods for Lab pups.

    Below is a copy of a post I've often made.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    While there is not 100% agreement among Lab breeders or all vets, as far as I know there IS 100% agreement among canine nutritional scientists that large breed dogs (such as Labs) should be fed a formula especially formulated for LB puppies up to 12 months or when adult height is gained.

    Labs are among the "larger breeds" that have a lot of joint problems -- about one of every 3 dogs among Labs.

    Joint problems are caused primarily by 3 mutually interacting factors:

    -- stress, injury, such as caused by jumping, leaping especially before adulthood

    -- genetics such as caused by breeders not having their breeding dogs certified for hips & joints AND not checking for that in the pedigree line -- in short, puppy mills, backyard breeders, scam breeders

    -- diet such as caused by feeding a large breed puppy a food that is not specially formulated for large breed puppies; a LBP food controls the amount of calcium delivered

    Once you have your Lab, you CAN fairly much control the activities that could cause stress or injury AND you can absolutely control the diet your Lab gets. Doing both of those lessens the probability that your Lab will develop joint problems.

    Below are a few references on the importance of feeding a Large Breed Puppy food for the first year. (There are NO scientific articles claiming the opposite.) The references are from a post I've made so often that I just recopy it.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    My very strong preference -- for all Lab puppies under a year old -- is to feed a Large Breed (formulation) Puppy Food, such as made by Diamond, Eukanuba, Nutro Natural Choice, ProPlan, or Science Diet, etc., for the reasons given in the articles below:

    http://consumer.vetmedcenter.com/con...p?id=9808&dt=p

    http://www.mediarelations.ksu.edu/WE...pies62403.html

    http://www.petevents.com.au/news_articles/28.shtml

    http://www.diamondpetfood.com/Jul03.html

    http://www.newmanveterinary.com/large.html

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    This (just below) is a technical article (but readable) that summarizes many of the canine nutritional and growth studies:

    http://www.ilovemypet.com/jackart.html

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    See also:

    http://p075.ezboard.com/fjustlabrado...cID=3973.topic

    Within it, it contains this statement and references:

    "The scientific literature is very clear on nutritional changes to "help manage" the potential orthopedic problems in growing large and giant breed dogs. Here are a few citations for you. As you can see from the dates on these citations, it is “old” news to vets but pet owners and breeders are still making dangerous recommendations."

    1. Nap, et al. Growth and skeletal development in Great Dane pups fed different levels of protein intake. J Nutr 1991; 121:S107-S113.

    2. Hedhammer, et al. Over nutrition and skeletal disease: an experimental study in growing Great Dane dogs. Cornell Vet 1974; 64:1-159.

    3. Lavelle. The effect of overfeeding of a balanced complete commercial diet to a group of growing Great Danes. In: Nutrition of the dog and cat. Burger and Rivers (eds). Cambridge Univ Press, 1989:303-316.

    4. Hazewinkel, et al. Influences of chronic calcium excess on the skeletal development of growing Great Danes, J Am Anim Hosp Assoc 1985; 21:377-391.

    5. Goedegebuure, Hazewinkel. Morphological findings in young dogs chronically fed a diet containing excess calcium. Vet Pathol 1986; 23:594-605.

    6. Hazewinkel, et al. Calcium metabolism in Great Dane dogs fed diets with various calcium and phosphorus levels. J Nutr 1991; 121:S99-S106.



    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

  4. #3
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    DefaultRe: Need food suggestions

    From all i read eukanuba hills etc are not good foods at all. Also from what i read the protein amount doesn't matter its the calcium/phosphorus levels that should stay below 1.5%

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    Canyon Labradors's Avatar
    Canyon Labradors is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Need food suggestions

    Orijen is popular, mainly because grain-free is the current rage, and Orijen is the only manufacturer to put out a suitable grain-free formula for large breed puppies. I think more people feed other brands like Canidae, California Natural, and Innova....Orijen is actually harder to get, not distributed nationwide, so I personally would never opt to feed it because I can't get it reliably.

  7. #5
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Need food suggestions

    From all i read eukanuba hills etc are not good foods at all. Also from what i read the protein amount doesn't matter its the calcium/phosphorus levels that should stay below 1.5%
    There are some people on this forum who trash Hill's based on other's opinions of food formulations that Hill's no longer uses. But Hill's has a variety of foods that are helpful, such as their PD line for medical conditions, that are available nowhere else. And they have a variety of foods of high quality; the following is one which is not labeled Large Breed Puppy but has a formulation consistent with it:

    http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/min...kTheLabel.hjsp

    Many people find Eukanuba a satisfactory food; it depends on what works best for your dog. A number of people have tried Orijen and love it while others find do not. In the last analysis, it depends on what works best for your dog, not what others say.

    For instance, see this:

    https://www.justlabradors.com/forum/i...c,75015.0.html
    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

  8. #6
    kepinkham is offline Junior Member
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    DefaultRe: Need food suggestions

    We have 2 labs and have given them both Pedigree... they love it. They have had no problems carrying extra weight, plus it is reasonable cost wise. I'm sure it may not be as "good" as some of the other brands, but I'm not a snob, but I also wouldn't feed my dogs crap. (**52 lb bag at sam's club is around $23- vs. Eukanuba is 48 lbs for $27)

  9. #7
    Canyon Labradors's Avatar
    Canyon Labradors is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Need food suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by kepinkham
    We have 2 labs and have given them both Pedigree... they love it. They have had no problems carrying extra weight, plus it is reasonable cost wise. I'm sure it may not be as "good" as some of the other brands, but I'm not a snob, but I also wouldn't feed my dogs crap. (**52 lb bag at sam's club is around $23- vs. Eukanuba is 48 lbs for $27)
    So what part of these first 10 ingredients from Pedigree's Complete Dog Nutrion food would NOT be construed as crap?
    GROUND WHOLE CORN--a dog food's first ingredient should never be a grain
    MEAT AND BONE MEAL--what kind of meat?? I would be less worried if they said BEEF like this food is supposed to be
    GROUND WHEAT--more grain? I would be less worried if it at least said WHOLE grain
    CORN GLUTEN MEAL--this is the ingredient that was recalled in alot of brands last year. No nutrional value, basically glue to hold the kibble together
    ANIMAL FAT (PRESERVED WITH BHA/BHT)--some more unnamed "animal" and isn't BHA/BHT supposed to be super bad???
    WHEAT MILL RUN, WHEAT FLOUR--more grain, don't even know what wheat mill run is...probably some by product of the processing of the flour
    NATURAL FLAVOR--no clue here....if it's so natural, say what it is...
    SALT, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE--not much to say about these things...negligible IMHO

    The other flavors of Pedigree were just about the same....

    It's fine if your dogs are doing well on it, that's all that's important, but don't trick yourself into thinking it's not crap. Hey, I love my McDonald's burgers and fries, but I am eating that crap with my eyes wide open....

  10. #8
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    Baloo317 is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Need food suggestions

    Orijen is a great food, I would highly recommend it, for numerous reasons, not the least of which is that they tell you exactly where each and every ingredient came from. In all my research on dog food they are the only ones who provide that info without having to ask for it.

    Are you in Canada? If so then you will be able to get it reliably for sure as it is most definitely distributed nationally. If not I know of many people in the states who feed it and haven't had a problem.
    Kate
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  11. #9
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    DefaultRe: Need food suggestions

    I personally like Orijen for a multitude of reasons... mostly because they use fresh, REGIONAL ingredients (ie. all Canadian) and the food is not outsourced to another factory to be made. It's made right at their own food processing facilities in Morinville, Alberta. I found this of great importance after that huge pet food recall last year with either contaminated ingredients, or foods getting cross-contaminated at plants which were making multiple lines of pet food.

    I'm also Canadian, and I like to buy Canadian as much as I can.

    Orijen does have a large breed puppy formula, and, as far as I'm aware, the only brand of grain-free that does. Petcurean's Now! has a puppy (not large breed) formula.

    It's widely available here in Canada, though I hear not as accessible in the States. So, if you're not in Canada, that might be a problem.

    Having said all that, do I feed Orijen? No. But our future puppy will eat Orijen LB Puppy... her breeder will be starting her on that, as far as I know.

    What it all comes down to is that you have to make a decision that is best for your particular dog. Orijen is a great food on paper, as are many of the other grain-frees. That doesn't mean it will be the best food for your dog.

    Good luck!

  12. #10
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    DefaultRe: Need food suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by baby belle
    From all i read eukanuba hills etc are not good foods at all. Also from what i read the protein amount doesn't matter its the calcium/phosphorus levels that should stay below 1.5%
    That's generally true, but there's an exception. The problem with protein arises when some people try to feed an adult food to a puppy. As it's name suggests, they're generally formulated for an adult, not a puppy, so not all adult foods have ENOUGH protein for a growing pup. They also may have too much calcium. That's why it's important that if you feed an adult food to a puppy, it's not only important to look at the calcium but also the AAFCO label on the back to make sure it is formulated for all life stages and not just maintenance.

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