Large breed puppy food vs. all stages
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Thread: Large breed puppy food vs. all stages

  1. #1
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    DefaultLarge breed puppy food vs. all stages

    We will bring our new black lab puppy home in about a week, and I am researching kibble for him. I like the idea of large breed puppy food but when I talked with the local pet food suppy store owner he said that it is not needed. Basically he said that an all life stage food would be fine and that we could control the growing by portion control. I was wondering what you guys think about this. He does carry both, but felt the Prairie dog food or Canidae all life stages would be fine if we fed on the lower end of what is recommended for puppies. I am not for sure, and would love to hear from others.

    Thanks in advance,
    Robin

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  3. #2
    MnMsMom9902's Avatar
    MnMsMom9902 is offline Senior Member
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    What is your breeder feeding the puppy right now? Maybe you can just continue feeding him/her the samething.

    Miko (April 6, 2009), CGC

  4. #3
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    Below is a copy of a post I've often made. Not all the links still work but many do.

    Some otherwise responsible breeders reject feeding a LBP food saying that the Lab standards define Labs as a "medium sized" dog. However, worldwide, canine nutritional scientists define "large breed" as over 25 kg (55 lbs.) at adulthood. There's no reason in the world that canine nutritional scientists should be forced to have the same definition for large or medium as any particular dog club's breed standard. The important thing is not those words but their weights at adulthood.

    Some dog foods are advertised as suitable for all life stages and can, indeed, have lower levels of calcium and phosphorus. However, some may also not have sufficiently high kcals/cup so those puppies who need more energy may eat more food and thus gain more Calcium & Phosphorus than is ideal for them. The safest thing to do is to feed a LBP food from a very responsible manufacturer.

    While there is not 100% agreement on this among Lab breeders or all vets, as far as I know there IS 100% agreement among canine nutritional scientists that large breed dogs (and those with high susceptibility to joint problems) should be fed a formula especially formulated for LB puppies up to 12 months or when adult height is gained.

    Labs are among the breeds that have a lot of joint problems -- about ONE of every 3 dogs among Labs.

    Joint problems are caused primarily by 3 mutually interacting factors:
    -- stress, injury, such as can be caused by jumping, leaping especially before adulthood.
    -- genetics such as caused by breeders not having their breeding dogs certified for hips & joints AND not checking for that in the pedigree line -- in short, puppy mills, backyard breeders, scam breeders
    -- diet such as caused by feeding a puppy a food that is not specially formulated to control the amount of calcium & phosphorus delivered and the calcium: phosphorus ratio.

    Once you have your Lab, you CAN fairly much control the activities that could cause stress or injury AND you can absolutely control the diet your Lab gets. Doing both of those lessens the probability that your Lab will develop joint problems.

    Below are a few references on the importance of feeding a Large Breed Puppy food for the first year. (There are NO scientific articles claiming the opposite.)

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++

    My very strong preference -- for all Lab puppies under a year old -- is to feed a Large Breed (formulation) Puppy Food, such as made by Diamond Naturals, Eukanuba, Nutro Natural Choice, ProPlan, or Science Diet, etc., for the reasons given in the articles below:

    http://consumer.vetmedcenter.com/con...p?id=9808&dt=p

    http://www.mediarelations.ksu.edu/WE...pies62403.html

    http://www.petevents.com.au/news_articles/28.shtml

    http://www.diamondpetfood.com/Jul03.html

    http://www.newmanveterinary.com/large.html

    This (just below) is a technical article (but readable) that summarizes many of the canine nutritional and growth studies:

    http://www.ilovemypet.com/jackart.html

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    See also:
    http://p075.ezboard.com/fjustlabrado...cID=3973.topic

    Within it, it contains this statement and references:
    "The scientific literature is very clear on nutritional changes to "help manage" the potential orthopedic problems in growing large and giant breed dogs. Here are a few citations for you. As you can see from the dates on these citations, it is “old” news to vets but pet owners and breeders are still making dangerous recommendations."

    1. Nap, et al. Growth and skeletal development in Great Dane pups fed different levels of protein intake. J Nutr 1991; 121:S107-S113.
    2. Hedhammer, et al. Over nutrition and skeletal disease: an experimental study in growing Great Dane dogs. Cornell Vet 1974; 64:1-159.
    3. Lavelle. The effect of overfeeding of a balanced complete commercial diet to a group of growing Great Danes. In: Nutrition of the dog and cat. Burger and Rivers (eds). Cambridge Univ Press, 1989:303-316.
    4. Hazewinkel, et al. Influences of chronic calcium excess on the skeletal development of growing Great Danes, J Am Anim Hosp Assoc 1985; 21:377-391.
    5. Goedegebuure, Hazewinkel. Morphological findings in young dogs chronically fed a diet containing excess calcium. Vet Pathol 1986; 23:594-605.
    6. Hazewinkel, et al. Calcium metabolism in Great Dane dogs fed diets with various calcium and phosphorus levels. J Nutr 1991; 121:S99-S106.


    Last edited by Bob Pr.; 08-14-2009 at 12:01 AM.
    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

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    Thanks for the information.

    Robin

  7. #5
    nicole's Avatar
    nicole is offline Senior Member
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    The person you spoke to at the store is absolutely correct. Large breed puppy food isn't neccessary if you know what to look for.

    Feed what the breeder's feeding for at least a couple of weeks, so you don't cause stomach upset on top of all the other changes your pups going through. Then if you feel you want to change, look for a food whose calcium level is less than 1.5% and feed enough to keep the puppy in good condition.

    I personally feed regular puppy food (not large breed) until 4-5 mo and then switch to adult/all age food. Ask your breeder what they do and why.

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    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    The person you spoke to at the store is absolutely correct. Large breed puppy food isn't neccessary if you know what to look for.

    Feed what the breeder's feeding for at least a couple of weeks, so you don't cause stomach upset on top of all the other changes your pups going through. Then if you feel you want to change, look for a food whose calcium level is less than 1.5% and feed enough to keep the puppy in good condition.
    Do you have any scientific canine nutritional studies to support that diet?

    Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]

    Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
    http://forum.justlabradors.com/showt...?p=748#post748

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