What are your thoughts on this.....
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Thread: What are your thoughts on this.....

  1. #1
    Baloo317's Avatar
    Baloo317 is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultWhat are your thoughts on this.....

    I've been thinking a lot in the last little while about neutering. (Yes I know, not normal. But that's another topic for another thread.... )

    Baloo is showing zero sexual behaviour, he's 8 months old today. He tried to hump Peanut once, I corrected and he hasn't tried it again, that was about a month ago.

    The plan was to wait until he is 18 months, and then neuter him. But now I'm toying with the idea of just leaving him intact. What do you think...?

    Firstly, this is assuming that his behaviour continues to be mild and manageable.

    Secondly, HE WILL NOT BE BRED. I know that vigilance is a must with an intact male, please don't think for one second that I will allow my dog to contribute to the overpopulation problem.

    Thirdly, I have yet to find any really convincing medical arguments that are pro-neuter, I've found a few that are against it. This could just be a "googling" error on my part.

    So basically, what are your thoughts? Because he won't be bred, and will never have a chance to release his you-know-what, could that cause problems? How realistic is the heightened risk of testicular cancer..??

    Part of me says that he should be neutered. But I think that I have been swayed a lot by the overpopulation spiel on that front, and I am having trouble separating out what is related to actual heath benefits, and what is related to population control. :-\

    And another part of me says to just leave well enough alone as long as I can manage the behavior and be appropriately vigilant with ensuring that he does not reproduce.

    So when you remove the "breeding/population" part of the issue, what do you think..?
    Kate
    Baloo - 5 year old black lab
    Peanut - 7 year old minpin
    Monster - 3-ish year old frenchie/jack, rescue
    We're Superdogs!


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  3. #2
    Dawson Creek Girl's Avatar
    Dawson Creek Girl is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: What are your thoughts on this.....

    Umm, I would still go ahead and neuter him. Problems may arise as he matures - and if you want to add another dog down the road, having a male already neutured would make the situation easier.
    •*´¯`*•.¸¸.•Patti•*´¯`*•.¸¸.•


  4. #3
    Tanya is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: What are your thoughts on this.....

    My person take on the issue (which is just MY take on this) - I could never feel certain enough that an "accident" would not happen. People take their bitches in heat everywhere (irresponsible people generally)

    Rocky generally has little interest in other dogs, and if he does, it is not for long. But I have seen his reaction to two bitches in heat brought to the dog park - he followed them none stop (as did all the other dogs may I add). This was a huge change in behavior, it's not like him to be that interested in any dog for that long.

    I also had a bad experience with Dryf. He would keep running away from home. He was fine with other dogs as long as his food bowl wasn't there (which was another issue altogether) and we never saw him show that much interest in other dogs but...he did take off regularly. We finally had him neutered and the running away stopped completely.

    Guess I would have to have some discussions with breeders (the good ones) to see how they handle their intact males. And if I felt i could handle it - I might feel differently.
    Charlie (foster) and Rocky

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  6. #4
    YellowJakesMom's Avatar
    YellowJakesMom is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: What are your thoughts on this.....

    I would still neuter him as well.

    First, does your breeder not specify that he must be neutered? I'm assuming you bought him on limited registration or the CKC equivalent? My breeder did specify that Jake must be neutered, and many will specify a time as well.

    Second, a dog's personality is very much not fully formed at 8 months. He's not yet reached sexual maturity or social maturity - so just because you haven't had problems now doesn't mean you won't have problems later.

    Third are future problems - many dog daycares will not take in-tact dogs, dog walkers I know charge extra for them or will not accept the liability. The kennel I worked at took intact dogs, but they could not participate in any "extra" activities due to the liability of them getting loose. You may have no need for these services now, but who knows what your life will be like in 4 or 5 years, you know?

    Finally, I know you're a responsible dog owner from reading your posts, but really truly it only takes one slipped leash, one nephew opening the back door, one family member watching the dog while you're away being clumsy, on stay bitch in heat wandering into the yard, to create a possible litter of puppies.

    Healthwise, obviously testicular cancer (sertoli cell tumors are one type of which I am familiar with in dogs) is a concern. If caught early on, it's not a big deal - the dog is neutered and the prognosis is good. The other major problem is benign prostatic hypertrophy (BPH) - in which an enlarging prostate causes urinary problems (maybe you've seen those goofy flomax commercials for human males?). It can also lead to sepsis if severe enough and left untreated. Again, neutering will help alleviate these problems - BPH is seen in 80% of intact dogs over age 5, it's just a result of hormones, but it can be a pain in the butt.

    I believe many of the studies that state it's better to neuter a dog later in life to help with bone development are based on fairly sound science. However, I don't believe any evidence or possible side effect of neutering after maturity (18-24 months) warrants keeping a dog intact that will not be shown or bred. Some "problems" I've heard of are obesity, hyperthyroidism, diabetes, etc. The risk for certain cancers that *may* be increased by neutering are not nearly high enough to worry me anyway (quadrupling a 0.06% chance of cancer still isn't much of a risk) - I'd be much more worried about the flea and tick medications we're putting on our animals causing cancer.

    Sorry this is so long, are there other or more specific reasons you want to keep Baloo intact? Are you worried about anesthesia? Changing his personality?

    Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find that money cannot be eaten. - Cree prophecy

  7. #5
    Tanya is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: What are your thoughts on this.....

    actually I am almost glad this came up (sorry to add more!)

    I saw this posted somewhere. Does anyone know how much research has been done? I know that when it comes to "studies" one can never rely on just one. This would kinda indicate that you should not neuter a male as the positives are fewer than the negatives

    http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongT...uterInDogs.pdf
    Charlie (foster) and Rocky

  8. #6
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    DefaultRe: What are your thoughts on this.....

    Tanya,
    Interesting article, thanks!

    Kate,
    I'd take it month by month for now if I were you. Don't worry about it at this point, you know you are waiting for awhile, so just wait and then as it gets closer to when you were originally thinking, you can re-evaluate. My plan with Jonah is to wait until at least 18 month - 2 years if I can. So far we have had no issues (he is the least dominant male dog I've ever seen; never humped once, and rolls over on his back for other dogs or if he's getting in trouble with us). My concern is that I worry about being able to take him places off leash; although one would think others wouldn't take a female in heat out in public, there is no guarantee. What if you were at a dog park, or somewhere else, and that accident DID happen? We've seen what dumb people are out there, and I wouldn't be completely surprised to see a female in heat off leash somewhere you go. Although YOU are vigilent, other dog owners aren't necessarily so. I want to be able to take Jonah to our local "dog" beach and dog parks without having to worry if some other idiot out there has a female dog in heat running up the beach.

    So if I were you, I'd wait another year, see how things are going, and see if any new studies are out there and re-evaluate the pros/cons. That's my plan for Jonah anyway!

  9. #7
    millstonekennel's Avatar
    millstonekennel is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: What are your thoughts on this.....

    I have neutered a male at 10 yrs old never once did I have an unplanned litters. I also have 3 intacted male that are in the house together they are 18 months, 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 yrs old I have not had any problems with them together or when a girl is in heat and no unplanned litters. They do not hump anything or anyone they know I am in charge. I go lots of places and dogs show with my boy and not had and problems. I don't go to dog parks never have and never will neuter boy or not. If you started to see a problem than you can neuter him and depending on the problem it will go away (do to hormones). The dision is up to you.

    The other major problem is benign prostatic hypertrophy (BPH) - in which an enlarging prostate causes urinary problems
    This can happen in neuter males also. I've seen 3 come in the the vets office that I work for and they were neutered at 6 months or so its just not as common.
    Alicia

  10. #8
    BoatDog is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: What are your thoughts on this.....

    Neuter - Morgan was not neutered until almost 3 - the difference is still remarkable -NEUTER!!!!!

  11. #9
    Baloo317's Avatar
    Baloo317 is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: What are your thoughts on this.....

    A little more info if it helps:

    • My breeder states that he cannot be bred, there is nothing in the contract specifically about neutering.
    • I don't use dog walkers or dog daycares and never will, he will also never be boarded in a public kennel, just due to personal reasons.
    • I know his personality isn't completely developed yet, and this decision would be greatly dependent on numerous factors remaining the same.


    I think I will take it week by week, month by month for now. The point was made that I can always neuter him later if I feel that it's "time".

    I know that I will be hyper-vigilant in making sure he does not breed. It is something that is very important to me. I know that there are no 100% "guarantees", but I swear I will do everything in my power to ENSURE that there are NEVER any little Baloos.

    As far as my reasons for not wanting him neutered, I basically don't want to have him go through any surgery if it's not completely necessary, you know? I just don't know that I'm convinced as of yet that neutering qualifies as completely necessary. :-\

    I guess we'll see.
    Kate
    Baloo - 5 year old black lab
    Peanut - 7 year old minpin
    Monster - 3-ish year old frenchie/jack, rescue
    We're Superdogs!


  12. #10
    labby's Avatar
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    DefaultRe: What are your thoughts on this.....

    I think taking it month by month is a wise plan. Each dog is different. Seamus was never a problem being in the house intact. Jake has a lot of testosterone already. He and I might have a few words before he settles down as well as Seamus has.



    Laura





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