Just Labradors banner

Science Diet Natures Best

3K views 17 replies 8 participants last post by  Snowco Labradors 
#1 ·
Anyone heard about this food. Just curious.

http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/minisite/naturesBest/naturesBestHome.hjsp?JSESSIONID=HqQgwSpkyrM9uwoUldZ25o8GJ2BWQTdv5ZQwk254rGcHuaZCwvh9!-2007071424!167846923!7005!8005&bmUID=1193971744882
 
#3 ·
It has more grain in it than my (Costco's) Kirkland C&R/"Diamond Naturals" C&R but I doubt if it's more than in Eukanuba/Iams or ProPlan/Purina One.

I have a couple friends who work at Hill's Science Diet who have Labs and come to our LabFest. One's a vet and one's in IT (Information Technology). Brian has a 7 year old Lab (Jessie) that'd gotten too gimpy from arthritis to come to our LabFests. But he started feeding her a new Science Diet for joint relief and she walks and runs like a different dog. There's such an amazing difference, I wouldn't care if it had every grain in the world in it -- it's working so well for Jessie.

(BTW, neither person from Hill's tries to sell SD; and they may be the only ones of our group who feed it, I don't know.)
 
#4 ·
Thanks, Bob. I'm trying to find a diet that my vet and I can agree on. Buddy has had a creatinine at the top level of normal for about 18 months. My vet wants him on a low protein diet preferably a Senior diet. All that I've tried him on have done awful things to his coat. I began searching the internet for help with possible kidney problems. Several articles I read mentioned feed diets low in phosphorus. They said high phosphorus was worse than high protein. Science diet is the only food I found with low levels of phosphorus. I don't like regular SD, but this new food looks interesting. I'm going to give it a try and see what Buddy's creatinine looks like in a couple months. Thanks again.
 
#5 ·
Just because they say it's natural and better doesn't make Science Diet ANY BETTER. Let's look at the first 10 ingredients:
Chicken once processed, it loses it's moisture and moves down the list so that it's no longer the ingredient with the highest percentage in the bag. You actually would want to see chicken MEAL as #1 with a good food
Brown Rice OK, but when moved into the #1 spot, you are feeding a high percentage of grain vs. meat protein
Whole Grain Wheat Some don't like wheat, but coupled with the rice and the barley....too much grain
Cracked Pearled Barley As I mentioned, too much grain
Soybean Meal Adding even MORE grain
Chicken Meal Good ingredient, too far down the list under all the grains
Pork Fat I don't know if this is good or bad, probably wouldn't want pork in a chicken formula, I think it's just a cheap ingredient
Dried Egg Product OK, no problems with this ingredient
Natural Flavor why bother?

But I guess if you need it for health reasons, it's worth a try. Have you looked at Solid Gold Holistic Blendz, I think that's low in protein.
 
#7 ·
Right now I'm not looking at a food particularly low in protein. I'm looking for one low in PHOSPHORUS. I've read that a low phosphorus has more effect on renal function than a low protein. I will check out the phosphorus levels of these foods you've posted.
Jen, Buddy is on the Lamb and Brown Rice. Did I post the wrong link....let me go check.

Here's the link to the actual food we're using. Sorry, I thought I had posted this before.

http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/minisite/naturesBest/naturesBestCheckTheLabel.hjsp
 
#8 ·
Q

I have had a dog with KF and it is no longer recommended to feed low protein. Rather high, good quality protein. This is as far back as 2003 or 4 and beyond.

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=protein_myth

You are right in feeding low phosphorous. Do not feed veggies as they are loaded with phosphorous. You should feed crushed egg shells to help bind phosphorous in the diet.

I personally would not feed the SD kidney formula to my girl. Ethoxyquin is a pesticide that they use as a preservative in most of their prescription kibble diets.

I fed Royal Canine Maxi Mature 26 to my girl. 26% protein (with 1/4-1/2 cup cooked chop meat added to each meal) and .6 phosphorous. This food does have corn in it but the low phos. was more important and my girl did fine on it. The below site does not give you the phos. You can call the company and ask as I did.

http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/product_detail.asp?pf_id=2012808&dept_id=1&brand_id=674

It has been a few years since I lost my girl so today you may find a better food (with no corn and less grain) that is also low in phos.

CoQ10 and fish body oil also helps.

Go to www.dogaware.com for info on KF and natural supplementing.

My girl lived comfortably with no outward signs of the disease for 1 1/2 years to the age of 16. She was monitored thru blood work every 2-4 months.

Good luck.
 
#10 ·
Looking at this link - is this the food your dog is on?

http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/minisite/naturesBest/naturesBestCheckTheLabel.hjsp

I see no ethoxyquin - perhaps SD stopped using it as a preservative.

The ingredients don't look too bad - no corn like in their other foods.

The phosphorous is .4 which is excellent for KF and better than what I fed at .6

The protein is a bit low IMO at 21% but you could add meat protein to each meal to increase that.
 
#11 ·
Keep in mind, with meats come phosphorus (about 8 mg of Ph per gram of protein in beef and chicken). Although high protein diets are find for healthy kidneys, they still recommend reduced protein for dogs (and humans) with existing kidney trouble. While it won't cause kidney failure, it can cause problems with dogs with existing kidney problems. It's as much the phosphorus as the protein with regard to meat. One reason the phosphorus is probably low in this food is because it doesn't have a lot of protein.
 
#12 ·
I have to disagree with you from my experience and research.

The food I fed was 26% prot. and .6 phos. which is good for a KF dog.

The added protein of good quality is important.

Your mention of phos. in protein is the reason for giving crushed egg shells as I mention above to help the body bind phosphorous.

My dogs phosphorous levels were kept in check with the diet I used.
 
#14 ·
Well I didn't post out of ignorance. :D I try to at least read up on some of the research before posting.

A lot of research recommends lower protein levels (not low, but reduced - that's the key distinction here). The link you provided doesn't address dogs with kidney problems. It says that healthy dogs aren't at risk from high protein levels, and I'd agree with that. High protein doesn't cause kidney problems, that myth has been debunked. But that's not the issue when there already is kidney damage. I'm not sure 26% is considered high (in fact, some say 20-25% is appropriate so that's not that far off at all - "Dietary modification with a relatively low protein diet (20-25%) may help reduce clinical signs of uremic toxins at that point." http://mailer.fsu.edu/~jmcnair/netvet.html), but adding meat should be done cautiously and under the advice of the supervising vet. It's not just the protein, it's also the nitrogen and amino acids that the kidneys must work to remove.

I think you may be assuming what qualifies as "low" is 15-20%, but I don't think that's the case. However, feeding a high protein diet would be a bad idea.

http://www.healthyhappydogs.com/Article.KidneyFailure
http://www.petshealth.com/dr_library/caninekidney.html
http://www.thepetcenter.com/gen/kf.html
http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2002.220.1163?cookieSet=1&journalCode=javma
http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00437.htm

Phosphorus is still the big factor, but protein still plays a roll in the symptoms related to uremia. Like always, things like this should be discussed with the vet. Depending on the severity and the symptoms, the protein levels will be different.
 
#15 ·
I am sorry you are going through this. I hope you get it sorted soon.


Bob Pr. said:
It has more grain in it than my (Costco's) Kirkland C&R/"Diamond Naturals" C&R but I doubt if it's more than in Eukanuba/Iams or ProPlan/Purina One.

I have a couple friends who work at Hill's Science Diet who have Labs and come to our LabFest. One's a vet and one's in IT (Information Technology). Brian has a 7 year old Lab (Jessie) that'd gotten too gimpy from arthritis to come to our LabFests. But he started feeding her a new Science Diet for joint relief and she walks and runs like a different dog. There's such an amazing difference, I wouldn't care if it had every grain in the world in it -- it's working so well for Jessie.

(BTW, neither person from Hill's tries to sell SD; and they may be the only ones of our group who feed it, I don't know.)
I have been advised to feed Ernie the joint relief one as it appears to be working so well. I can't long term. Too much grain and I know I shouldn't worry about costs, but at $58.00 a five kilo bag I just can't afford it as well as meds.




 
#16 ·
See the info under Kidney Failure regarding proper diet at www.dogaware.com

This woman is very knowledgeable and helped me tremendously with my KF girl and the reason I fed the protein that I did.

Nick, I understand what you have found in your research. Never thought you were ignortant, just don't agree with you as I have been thru this issue. It is no longer being thought that hi protein is bad for KF dogs.

I also have this from a recent dissertation from a college student that was backed up by veterinarians research. I know this person and trust her in her research but unfortunately I don't have the documentation to post it here.

Your last link states Atlantic Coast Veterinary Conference of 2001. the other links dont have dates on the articles. These articles could be years old and the reason for what you are finding in your research.
 
#17 ·
Oh I know you didn't, I was just being tongue-and-cheek.

I think we're arguing semantics (in terms of what we're considering "low" protein) here. I do realize there is some disagreement among the experts, so I'm not trying to say you're wrong and I'm right. The reason I say we're probably debating semantics here is because what you fed fits in with what the research I've found says. Furthermore, it's driven more by symptoms than anything. It's not that the protein will further damage the kidneys like phosphorus can, but kidneys that aren't working properly don't rid the body of extra nitrogen which can lead to uremia (nausea, vomitting, etc.) and that is what the reduced protein diets are for. And I agree with you, reduced doesn't mean low, it does seem that the recommendation for low protein diets has gone by the wayside. Does that make sense? Do you see why I say that really you're position and what I've found really aren't that out of sync?

As a side note, if you do get a copy and she doesn't mind you posting it I'd be interested in reading it, just for my own edification.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top