What about CNM?
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Thread: What about CNM?

  1. #1
    windycanyon's Avatar
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    DefaultWhat about CNM?

    Who all is looking into the CNM testing w/ show or blended lines? http://www.labradorcnm.com/ Most of us know the field lines have issues, but did you know some show lines are supposedly also dealing w/ it? Here's a video of an affected 5.5 mos old who was pts shortly after Dx: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY1DWQqoac0 She's mostly field bred from what I gather, but I do think it's something a bunch of us should be embracing since I know my PRA gene snuck in something like 6-8 generations back and I've yet to shake it in my 4th generation, even breeding consistently to Clear dogs (other littermates are testing clear). One of these days I'll pick the Clear pup, but at least I know what I'm dealing with having tested.

    At the Natl, there will also be EIC test kits available. The group is collecting DNA from normal dogs for test development. I hope to do 3 of mine there and at least 3 for the CNM test soon, even though I have no history of producing either (same thing with PRA... so that was a surprise to come back w/ a carrier on the first girl I tested!). Knowledge is power, as they say. -Anne

    WindyCanyon Girls, August 2014

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    DefaultRe: What about CNM?

    Why limit yourself to just PRA clear dogs? If you have a B you can breed to an A and pick the best puppy based on your criteria. I had this discussion with the field folks after the initial panic over some of their dogs coming back Carriers of CNM. So what? As long as you breed to a Clear you'll never produce an affected. It doesn't make sense to toss out carriers as some of them were doing. Same with the PRA gene. My crew are all A's/Normal but I wouldn't hesitate to use a B/Carrier if I thought he was the right dog for one of my bitches.

    To answer the original Q though, no I haven't tested for CNM. I don't have any dogs that go back to field lines.



    Laura





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    DefaultRe: What about CNM?

    My breeder tests for CNM. She told me in a short while no one will buy a pup without having the test done for CNM. These are all FC/AFC lines. Her bitches were clear but we are from southwestern Pa & some field folks over in the eastern part of the state had some problems with pups with CNM. The one trainer did the test & found his dog to be a carrier. I don't breed but it is always wise to be knowledgeable about the breed you love. And for picking out a puppy the next time.

    A memebr of our club has a male who is a carrier for PRA....he was never used for stud. He is a GMHRC & there were no others in his line with it. They found this out when doing clearences before using him as a stud.

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    DefaultRe: What about CNM?

    Quote Originally Posted by labby
    To answer the original Q though, no I haven't tested for CNM. I don't have any dogs that go back to field lines.
    Because Labby, as I said in my initial post, I already have CARRIERS of PRA!!!! I must breed to clears if I'm going to guarantee I'll never produce it. I haven't tested my 2.5 yo yet (yes, sire is Clear), and am at the point that I'm breeding her to Clear anyhow. I've fought the damned gene/carrier status too long to even want to mess around with it. It came in WAY back on my 12.5 yo girls' side where there were a couple known carriers. What I find *terribly* frustrating are the field folks who deny PRA is an issue in field stuff (yet it is THERE-- that's the side mine came from plus a field friend of mine produced an affected a few years ago before the test was available out of a field trial dog-- ends up his mom was Affected AND was going blind when the breeding was done but the lady denied it was anything genetic! And of course her girl had to be a carrier for her to produce it assuming the stud was only a carrier). I've been told from some if I want to breed to their stud badly enough, I can pay for the testing to be done. Gee, aren't they generous.... and I'd be out the nearly $200 if the dog isnt Clear. BS.

    And the other point I made above is that they *ARE* seeing CNM in SHOW lines as well. I think it's a matter of time before it all comes out in the wash. The gal that made the video has show lines herself, and after seeing her uncle's dog suffer from this so badly, she has vowed to not breed to any non tested dog, even from Show stock. So if folks want stud biz, they'll have to do it for her anyhow. I do think it's going to be one of those things we'll all need to embrace, if not for all our breeding stock but at least to ensure that at least one parent is clear. I'm positive EIC will be an issue for both field and show as vets are seeing it in both. -Anne


    WindyCanyon Girls, August 2014

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    labby's Avatar
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    DefaultRe: What about CNM?

    Georgie just think of all the people missing out by not breeding to that male just because he's a carrier. If their bitches are clear then they shouldn't hesitate to use him.

    Thankfully Seamus is a Normal for PRA so he can be used with any bitch and never produce the problem. If he were a Carrier then I would require the PRA test. That's how we're handling it in the show world. At first people panicked at the word Carrier and Affected but once everyone settled down they realized that you do not need to throw out carriers in a breeding program. Just breed them wisely.





    Laura





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    DefaultRe: What about CNM?

    That video was awful. poor baby.... :'(
    Kate
    Baloo - 5 year old black lab
    Peanut - 7 year old minpin
    Monster - 3-ish year old frenchie/jack, rescue
    We're Superdogs!


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    DefaultRe: What about CNM?

    Quote Originally Posted by labby
    Georgie just think of all the people missing out by not breeding to that male just because he's a carrier. If their bitches are clear then they shouldn't hesitate to use him.

    Thankfully Seamus is a Normal for PRA so he can be used with any bitch and never produce the problem. If he were a Carrier then I would require the PRA test. That's how we're handling it in the show world. At first people panicked at the word Carrier and Affected but once everyone settled down they realized that you do not need to throw out carriers in a breeding program. Just breed them wisely
    I agree, but some folks (like the afore mentioned in the PRA post) lie or choose not to disclose info to unsuspecting people that are willing to pay big stud fees. My friend wouldn't have known about PRA back then, I bet. I did because I'm an anal sort of person... and had been following and absorbing Lab-L discussions on the subject closely at that time. I had NO idea my girls would ever come back as carriers. I'll feel alot more comfortable if I'm able to say my lines are clear for CNM before breeding back into field lines (especially). But, you have to admit, every breeding you do is a risk for something. It's a matter of crossing all those risks off my list! -Anne

    WindyCanyon Girls, August 2014

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    labby's Avatar
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    DefaultRe: What about CNM?

    If you feel people are lying to you then why would you consider using their dog at all?

    If they can't produce the paperwork then they don't get the business. Its pretty easy. If I suspect someone lies in doing their clearances, then I certainly wouldn't buy a puppy from them or allow them to use my stud dog.





    Laura





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    Tatyana is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: What about CNM?

    I have seen a lot of discussion about breeding CNM carriers and EIC carriers (as will soon be identifiable with the DNA test). I personally feel that breeding clear to carriers can be beneficial. I certainly would not hesitate to buy a carrier as a pet. I'd prefer to buy a clear if I wanted to breed, but certainly would not turn a carrier away if the other traits/attributes were superb.

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    DefaultRe: What about CNM?

    That video is one of the most disturbing things
    I've ever seen. Poor creature. :'(

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