ISSUES REGARDING CASTRATION IN DOGS (Warning: Not Politically Correct)
Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 84

Thread: ISSUES REGARDING CASTRATION IN DOGS (Warning: Not Politically Correct)

  1. #1
    jlab Guest

    DefaultISSUES REGARDING CASTRATION IN DOGS (Warning: Not Politically Correct)

    From http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenl...onindogs.html:

    Politically correct conventional wisdom is not necessarily biologically correct. Also, old wives tales regarding testicles and behavioral matters are often just that.

    The only true justifications for castrating dogs are 1) aggressive behavior toward other dogs in the same household, and 2) perianal adenoma in old dogs.

    Aggression to other dogs in situations outside the house is pretty normal dog behavior. Appropriate behavior. Since your dog will be on lead or inside a secure fence at all times, there should be no problem with dogs outside your household. However, if male house mates fight, and both need to stay with you, castration of one or both may solve the aggression problems. If you fault your dog for being aggressive to acquaintances while being walked on lead, you should not. He is guarding you. That simple. Honorable behavior. If you fault your dog for aggression in a 'dog park' where he is running free, or on the beach, or in the woods, well shame on you; you're the one at fault for risking his life in such an uncontrolled situation. Dogs that can manage such encounters without aggression are fine, but you cannot automatically expect a dog to have friendly relations with animals from outside his own 'pack'. It goes against his whole evolution.

    Perianal adenomas, benign but messy tumors in old dogs may be treated by castration.

    In terms of your dog's health, two overriding concerns are present. Castration at an early age will cause the dog to become overly tall, as the growth plates in the long bones will not close at the appropriate time; additionally, the dog will lack breadth of chest. The combination of these two factors sets the stage for your dog to have painful orthopedic problems. The OFA has published articles on this subject. An early age means below 1 year in small and medium sized dogs, and below 2 to 2.5 years in large and giant breeds.

    The statement that your dog will not automatically gain weight is rubbish. Removing sexual hormones will change his metabolism and make your dog more sluggish, resulting almost inevitably in weight gain. Also, muscle tone will decline after castration, and the classic result of this is a fat dog in poor muscle tone that ends up having a cruciate ligament rupture in the knee. Can you avoid the consequences to weight and condition? Sure in the ideal world it's possible, but in the real world, the overwhelming proportion of owners do not succeed in this endeavor.

    The second concern regarding your dog's health is highly malignant prostate cancer. Virtually all malignant prostatic tumors in dogs occur in castrated dogs. Castrating your dog puts him at risk for one of the worst cancers he can get. While you remove the very slight risk of testicular cancer in castrated dogs, that's a small matter; the incidence of testicular cancer is so minimal. Also, almost all testicular cancers in dogs are benign. If we find a testicular tumor, we normally remove the testicle with the mass and leave the remaining one intact. The relative incidence and severity of the tumors of the prostate relative to tumors of the testicle makes the decision to keep your dog intact a virtual no-brainer. The information on the incidence prostatic malignancies was obtained through a very large study of the records at veterinary colleges. These findings have been published for several years.*

    Infection or inflammation of the prostate may occur in intact male dogs that are chronically exposed to bitches in heat. These are often worrisome to owners who seem to confuse prostatitis with the more serious prostate cancer. Prostatic infections are easily treated, and not, per se, a reason for castration.


    So, the bottom line is:
    1. Never castrate your dog because it is Politically Correct
    2. Only castrate your dog if his home life is at risk due to dog-to-dog
    aggression, or if, at the age of 11 years or so, he develops a perianal adenoma.

    Mary C. Wakeman, D.V.M.
    ©2003 for BREEDERVET

    1. Clinical and pathologic features of prostatic adenocarcinoma in sexually intact and castrated dogs: 31 cases (1970-1987) Ford W. Bell, DVM; Jeffery S. Klausner, DVM, MS; David W. Hayden, DVM, PhD; Daniel A. Feeney, DVM, MS; Shirley D. Johnston, DVM, PhD; Dept. of Small Animal Clinical Sci; College of Veterinary Medicine; University of Minnesota; 1352 Boyd Ave.; St. Paul, MN 55108

    "Castrated dogs had a 2.38 times greater risk of developing prostatic cancer than intact dogs when compared with the hospital population."

    2. Prostatic disorders in the dog. Anim Reprod Sci 60-61[]:405-15 2000 Jul 2 36 Refs Johnston SD, Kamolpatana K, Root-Kustritz MV, Johnston GR "Two studies suggest that risk of prostatic adenocarcinoma is increased in neutered, compared to intact male dogs."

  2. Remove Advertisements
    JustLabradors.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Dani's Avatar
    Dani is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mt. Pleasant, MI
    Posts
    6,676

    DefaultRe: ISSUES REGARDING CASTRATION IN DOGS (Warning: Not Politically Correct)

    Please go away.
    Dani, Rider & Rookie
    SHR Watson's Safari Rider, JH, WC, CL1-R, RA, CGC, TDI
    SHR Endeavor Put Me In Coach, RN, WC, CGC

    Member Since 6/2003

  4. #3
    Trickster's Avatar
    Trickster is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    7,913

    DefaultRe: ISSUES REGARDING CASTRATION IN DOGS (Warning: Not Politically Correct)

    Here we go again. :

    The only true justifications for castrating dogs are 1) aggressive behavior toward other dogs in the same household, and 2) perianal adenoma in old dogs.
    3) preventing unwanted litters
    4) putting a stop to 'male' behaviors
    5) being a RESPONSIBLE pet owner

    Aggression to other dogs in situations outside the house is pretty normal dog behavior. Appropriate behavior.
    What? so dog aggression is "appropriate" behavior? certainly not for our breed.

    Since your dog will be on lead or inside a secure fence at all times, there should be no problem with dogs outside your household.
    Umm, hello? REALITY CHECK. How many of us NEVER let our dogs off leash? I know I am certainly not the only one who allows their dogs to run free in safe and appropriate areas. I also know that I am not the only one who often runs into loose dogs.

    but you cannot automatically expect a dog to have friendly relations with animals from outside his own 'pack'. It goes against his whole evolution.
    It's funny, my dogs socialize outside of their 'pack' on a daily basis and they seem just fine. I guess they are the exception to "evolution"!

    The combination of these two factors sets the stage for your dog to have painful orthopedic problems.
    Right. So every dog who was castrated "early" (however you define "early") can look forward to orthopedic problems? :

    Mary C. Wakeman needs to wake up and ditch her dangerous opinions on castration. Imagine if everyone took this bizarre mentality seriously. I think it is sickening that a VET of all people advocates this.

    Happy now, jlab?

  5. Remove Advertisements
    JustLabradors.com
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    jlab Guest

    DefaultRe: ISSUES REGARDING CASTRATION IN DOGS (Warning: Not Politically Correct)

    Trickster, thanks for responding in a serious way. You bring up some good points.

    I also do not agree with everything Dr. Wakeman says in her article. Dr. Wakeman is an expert/specialist in canine reproduction not animal behavior. I think we have to separate out and respect the biology opinions and evidence she offers in the article. In that regard, I do not agree that she has dangerous or bazarre opinions on the biology. The opinions she offers for biology are based on science. The biology issues are the issues we should take seriously and learn from them. In answer to one of your questions about how "early" is defined, she mentions this in the article:

    "An early age means below 1 year in small and medium sized dogs, and below 2 to 2.5 years in large and giant breeds."

    On the other issues concerning canine behavior, I certainly will listen to and try to understand her point of view, but I don't see her opinion as any more valid than yours or mine. I give greater weight to experts in animal behavior who offer opposing opinions on how we can use the role of pack leader to determine which pack members can and cannot breed. I think those methods offer a valid alternative to neutering and are worth exploring for responsible pet owners.

  7. #5
    Trickster's Avatar
    Trickster is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    7,913

    DefaultRe: ISSUES REGARDING CASTRATION IN DOGS (Warning: Not Politically Correct)

    I give greater weight to experts in animal behavior who offer opposing opinions on how we can use the role of pack leader to determine which pack members can and cannot breed.
    Would you care to expand on this?

    Pet dogs should be fixed. Those of us that live in the real world (apparently, Mary C. Wakeman does not) are likely to let our dogs off leash now and then, are likely to run into loose and out of control dogs and are likely to run into idiots out with bitches in season.

    The cheery picture she creates where "dogs are on a lead at all times or behind a secure fence" is NOT reality.

    The only valid point she makes in the article is in regards prostate cancer. But I'm not going to keep my dog intact JUST to minimise the risk of prostate cancer. That would be totally illogical.

    The statement that your dog will not automatically gain weight is rubbish. Removing sexual hormones will change his metabolism and make your dog more sluggish, resulting almost inevitably in weight gain. Also, muscle tone will decline after castration, and the classic result of this is a fat dog in poor muscle tone that ends up having a cruciate ligament rupture in the knee.
    More ridiculous opinion. She is implying that all dogs will gain weight, all dogs will become sluggish and all dogs will loose muscle tone. Funny, because my dogs didn't gain weight, didn't become sluggish and didn't loose muscle tone.

    Average Joe does not need the responsibility of an intact dog. If Average Joe could handle that responsibility, do you really think we would have the huge problem with pet over population like we do now? certainly not, IMO.

  8. #6
    Baloo317's Avatar
    Baloo317 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    8,793

    DefaultRe: ISSUES REGARDING CASTRATION IN DOGS (Warning: Not Politically Correct)

    Quote Originally Posted by jlab
    Aggression to other dogs in situations outside the house is pretty normal dog behavior. Appropriate behavior. If you fault your dog for being aggressive to acquaintances while being walked on lead, you should not. He is guarding you. That simple. Honorable behavior.
    What..??  ???  You've got to be kidding me.  :

    The second concern regarding your dog's health is highly malignant prostate cancer. Virtually all malignant prostatic tumors in dogs occur in castrated dogs. Castrating your dog puts him at risk for one of the worst cancers he can get.
    That's probably because the people that take their dogs in for cancer treatment are pet owners. Most of which have castrated dogs.  :P :


    jlab. C'mon, man. You can't actually read stuff like this and buy into it. Did nobody ever teach you how to evaluate sources? How to critically analyze bits of information that you read?

    Do me a favor. Take a quick course on critical analysis and then read all of the shit you post again. You will be unpleasantly surprised.  :-\
    Kate
    Baloo - 5 year old black lab
    Peanut - 7 year old minpin
    Monster - 3-ish year old frenchie/jack, rescue
    We're Superdogs!


  9. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    90

    DefaultRe: ISSUES REGARDING CASTRATION IN DOGS (Warning: Not Politically Correct)

    The only true justifications for castrating dogs are 1) aggressive behavior toward other dogs in the same household, and 2) perianal adenoma in old dogs.
    Considering her specialty is "Canine Fertility"..I guess this would be her opinion ;D

    Aggression to other dogs in situations outside the house is pretty normal dog behavior. Appropriate behavior. Since your dog will be on lead or inside a secure fence at all times, there should be no problem with dogs outside your household.
    Perhaps she should stick with her "fertility clinic" and not try to pretend she also is a specialist in animal behavior. This statement is ridiculous, as dog aggression towards other dogs is NOT a normal behavior. There is "normally" a reason why a dog is aggressive to begin with. I do rescue, and I would hate to think my dogs, were aggressive towards them each time I brought a new dog into my home. As these are dogs that came from "outside" my home..

    Dogs that can manage such encounters without aggression are fine, but you cannot automatically expect a dog to have friendly relations with animals from outside his own 'pack'. It goes against his whole evolution.
    This seems a bit contrary to her opening statement, as being "normal"...Perhaps she should have worded herself better in saying it "can" happen. Which of course that would hold true, as there are situations where dogs can be dog aggressive outside the home, but that can also happen within the home too. To state it is a "normal" behavior without stating reasons "why" aggression may be there is ridiculous. IMHO. There is normally factors on why a dog would be aggressive to start with. Health, not being socialized, lack of training, and flat out owner ignorance. None of these issues would fall under "normal" ....

    In terms of your dog's health, two overriding concerns are present. Castration at an early age will cause the dog to become overly tall, as the growth plates in the long bones will not close at the appropriate time; additionally, the dog will lack breadth of chest. The combination of these two factors sets the stage for your dog to have painful orthopedic problems
    I read her article on HD..Strange she did think the above statement was important enough to be added to that article. I would "think" that if someone felt this strongly that this is the case, then it should have definitely been added to her article on HD, as this is a orthopedic issue.

    Can you avoid the consequences to weight and condition? Sure in the ideal world it's possible, but in the real world, the overwhelming proportion of owners do not succeed in this endeavor
    WOW she sure does not think much of dog owners, when it comes to them having any knowledge. LOL

    Infection or inflammation of the prostate may occur in intact male dogs that are chronically exposed to bitches in heat. These are often worrisome to owners who seem to confuse prostatitis with the more serious prostate cancer. Prostatic infections are easily treated, and not, per se, a reason for castration.
    Geez I guess I should have waited till my dog was 11 years old to neuter him, even though at 4 years old he started bleeding due to prostate infections. Yeah, I guess he could have gone another 6 years, and I could have put him through 3 day stays at the vet with a IV in him each time he had a bleeding episode. :

    What can I say about this article other than being ridiculous, nothing..

    Jen


  10. #8
    jlab Guest

    DefaultRe: ISSUES REGARDING CASTRATION IN DOGS (Warning: Not Politically Correct)

    Baloo, I think you need to follow your own advice and take that critical analysis course. You seem all too quick to buy into the propaganda and then bully people into accepting your point of view in order to discourage an open discussion.

    Dr. Wakeman is not the only expert who is a proponent of less neutering. Objective evidence against neutering is abundant on this issue. Neutering is not as definitive as you may believe. The following excerpt is from a recent review of the veterinary medical literature from over 50 peer-reviewed papers (http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongT...uterInDogs.pdf):

    "An objective reading of the veterinary medical literature reveals a complex situation with respect to the longterm health risks and benefits associated with spay/neuter in dogs. The evidence shows that spay/neuter correlates with both positive AND adverse health effects in dogs. It also suggests how much we really do not yet understand about this subject.

    On balance, it appears that no compelling case can be made for neutering most male dogs, especially immature male dogs, in order to prevent future health problems. The number of health problems associated with neutering may exceed the associated health benefits in most cases.

    On the positive side, neutering male dogs
    • eliminates the small risk (probably <1%) of dying from testicular cancer
    • reduces the risk of non-cancerous prostate disorders
    • reduces the risk of perianal fistulas
    • may possibly reduce the risk of diabetes (data inconclusive)

    On the negative side, neutering male dogs
    • if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a common cancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a poor prognosis.
    • increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6
    • triples the risk of hypothyroidism
    • increases the risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment
    • triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems
    • quadruples the small risk (<0.6%) of prostate cancer
    • doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract cancers
    • increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
    • increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations"

  11. #9
    Baloo317's Avatar
    Baloo317 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    8,793

    DefaultRe: ISSUES REGARDING CASTRATION IN DOGS (Warning: Not Politically Correct)

    Quote Originally Posted by jlab
    Baloo, I think you need to follow your own advice and take that critical analysis course. You seem all too quick to buy into the propaganda and then bully people into accepting your point of view in order to discourage an open discussion.
    I have actually, at two different post-secondary institutions. This is why I recommended them to you, I learned a lot.

    It is because I took those courses that I "bully" you. I think I have shown that when you post something worthy, I'll climb right on board.

    It is easy to accuse folks of "buying into propoganda". It is much more difficult to critically analyze sources/articles/etc and go from there. I suggest you take that course.
    Kate
    Baloo - 5 year old black lab
    Peanut - 7 year old minpin
    Monster - 3-ish year old frenchie/jack, rescue
    We're Superdogs!


  12. #10
    Trickster's Avatar
    Trickster is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    7,913

    DefaultRe: ISSUES REGARDING CASTRATION IN DOGS (Warning: Not Politically Correct)

    jlab, that second article is all very well but it does not address behavioral problems that can occur as the result of a dog being intact. Neither does it address neutering and spaying as a means of preventing unwanted litters. Yes, a neutered dog could POTENTIALLY be exposed to those health problems. But I am not going to live in fear of what my dogs COULD get. That's crazy talk. What I would be more concerned about is my intact dog getting loose and impregnating some bitch in season. Or getting loose after a bitch in season and getting hit by a car. I think there is a far larger risk of that happening to an intact dog than for a neutered dog to develop cardiac hemangiosarcoma or progressive geriatric cognitive impairment.

Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25