rabies shot too early?
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Thread: rabies shot too early?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Defaultrabies shot too early?


    We took our yellow lab Custer to the vet for his second set of shots and what we thought was going to be his first in a series of vaccinations against lymes disease. He had been to the vet once already for a health check and to have a Home Again chip placed (the breeders did the first immunizations). So his appointment was last Friday, when he was two days shy of being 11 weeks old. After our wonderful vet whom we both love dearly and the vet tech finished playing with him, checking him over, and giving him two shots, the vet said something about getting him started on lyme vaccinations in two weeks. I thought (and it was written on his last vet report card) that he would be getting the lyme vaccination and his other immunization, so I asked what shots they just gave him. The answer...parvo (I think that is what it was called) and rabies.

    My question...is this too early for a rabies shot? What can happen if it is? The shot was administered now three days ago (it is not Monday) and we haven't noticed anything - but it may be too early to notice.

    Funny thing is, on Saturday we got a postcard reminding us that the rabies vaccination is due on August 16.

    What should we do, if anything? We LOVE this vet...

    Please advise!


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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    DefaultRe: rabies shot too early?

    A follow-up...

    I just called the vet because I was just getting more and more anxious. Apparently between our first visit for a health check and our second visit for the booster and what was supposed to be the lyme vaccination, Custer's birthday got changed from the correct 5/20 to 5/11. Now Custer has to have ANOTHER rabies vaccine in a week and a half (they do 12 weeks standard) at no charge to us of course - because if given too early, there is concern that it will not be effective. He will also have his initial lyme vaccination also as we are in Wisconsin - prime lyme-carrying tick area and he will be a hunting dog. I asked three times if there would be any ill effects from having another vaccine, and so soon. Three times the receptionist (who consulted the Dr. and then called back) said no.

    Any thoughts?

    Deb >

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006

    DefaultRe: rabies shot too early?

    I would post this in the natural section. They would likely have a better idea.

    I hope you didn't get charged.

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  6. #4
    windycanyon's Avatar
    windycanyon is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    C. WA

    DefaultRe: rabies shot too early?

    Personally, I recommend to my puppy buyers to not do rabies until 5-6 mos, as allowed by law in WA state. IOW, we get thru our combos, rest the immune system (and let it mature a bit more) and then do Rabies at the "last minute" basically. I'd definitely not be doing it so closely right now!!!! I keep 3-4 wks btw my combos as well. -Anne

    WindyCanyon Girls, August 2014

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2006

    DefaultRe: rabies shot too early?

    I agree...I wouldn't do the 2nd Rabies so soon. Dr Dodds vaccination protocol has now been adopted by all 27 Vet schools. Here is a website that talks about it specifically.


    Here are some of the key points

    From: Doc Wheeler
    New vaccination protocols - Please pass along!!!

    Dr. Dodd's vaccination protocol is now being adopted by ALL 27 North
    American veterinary schools. I highly recommend that you read this.
    Copy and save it to your files. Print it and pass it out at dog fairs,
    cat shows, kennel club meetings, dog parks, give a copy to your
    veterinarian and groomer, etc.

    Get the word out. ~~~~


    I would like to make you aware that all 27 veterinary schools in North
    America are in the process of changing their protocols for vaccinating
    dogs and cats. Some of this information will present an ethical &
    economic challenge to vets, and there will be skeptics.

    Some organizations have come up with a political compromise suggesting
    vaccinations every 3 years to appease those who fear loss of income vs.
    those concerned about potential side effects. Politics, traditions, or
    the doctor's economic well being should not be a factor in medical decision.

    "Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified
    live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces an
    immunity which is good for the life of the pet (ie: canine Distemper,
    Parvo, Feline distemper). If another MLV vaccine is given a year later,
    the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the
    second vaccine, and there is little or no effect. The titer is not
    "boosted" nor are more memory cells induced." Not only are annual
    boosters for parvo and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to
    potential risks of allergic reactions, and immune-mediated hemolytic
    anemia. "There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims
    for annual administration of MLV vaccines." Puppies receive antibodies
    through their mothers milk. This natural protection can last 8-14 weeks.

    Puppies & kittens should NOT be vaccinated at LESS than 8 weeks.
    Maternal immunity will neutralize the vaccine, and little protection
    (0-38%) will be produced. Vaccination at 6 weeks will, however, delay
    the timing of the first highly effective vaccine. Vaccinations given 2
    weeks apart suppress rather than stimulate the immune system. A series
    of vaccinations is given starting at 8 weeks and given 3-4 weeks apart
    up to 16 weeks of age. Another vaccination given sometime after 6
    months of age (usually at 1 year 4 mo) will provide Lifetime immunity.

    Distemper & Parvo
    "According to Dr. Schultz, AVMA, 8-15-95, when a vaccinations series
    given at 2, 3 & 4 months and again at 1 year with a MLV, puppies and
    kitten program memory cells that survive for life, providing lifelong
    immunity." Dr. Carmichael at Cornell and Dr. Schultz have studies
    showing immunity against challenge at 2-10 years for canine distemper &
    4 years for parvovirus. Studies for longer duration are pending. "There
    are no new strains of parvovirus as one mfg. would like to suggest.
    Parvovirus vaccination provides cross immunity for all types."
    Hepatitis (Adenovirus) is one of the agents known to be a cause of
    kennel cough. Only vaccines with CAV-2 should be used as CAV-1 vaccines
    carry the risk of "hepatitis blue-eye" reactions & kidney damage.

    Bordetella Parainfluenza: Commonly called "Kennel cough" Recommended
    only for those dogs boarded, groomed, taken to dog shows, or for any
    reason housed where exposed to a lot of dogs. The intranasal vaccine
    provides more complete and more rapid onset of immunity with less chance
    of reaction. Immunity requires 72 hours, and does not protect from
    every cause of kennel cough. Immunity is of short duration (4 to 6 months).

    There have been no reported cases of rabid dogs or cats in Harris,
    Montogomery or Ft. Bend Counties [Texas], there have been rabid skunks
    and bats so the potential exists. It is a killed vaccine and must be
    given every year.

    Lyme disease is a tick born disease which can cause lameness, kidney
    failure and heart disease in dogs. Ticks can also transmit the disease
    to humans. The original Ft. Dodge killed bacteria has proven to be the
    most effective vaccine. Lyme disease prevention should emphasize early
    removal of ticks. Amitraz collars are more effective than Top Spot, as
    amitraz paralyzes the tick's mouth parts preventing transmission of disease.

    Multiple components in vaccines compete with each other for the immune
    system, and result in lesser immunity for each individual disease, as
    well as increasing the risk of a reaction. Canine Corona Virus is only a
    disease of puppies. It is rare, self limiting (dogs get well in 3 days
    without treatment). Cornell & Texas A&M have only diagnosed one case
    each in the last 7 years. Corona virus does not cause disease in adult dogs.

    Leptospirosis vaccine is a common cause of adverse reactions in dogs.
    Most of the clinical cases of lepto reported in dogs in the US are
    caused by serovaars (or types) grippotyphosa and bratsilvia. The
    vaccines contain different serovaars eanicola and ictohemorrhagica.
    Cross protection is not provided, and protection is short lived. Lepto
    vaccine is immuno-supressive to puppies less than 16 weeks.

    Giardia is the most common intestinal parasite of humans in North
    America, 30% or more of all dogs & cats are infected with giardia. It
    has now been demonstrated that humans can transmit giardia to dogs &
    cats & vice versa.

    Heartworm preventative must be given year-round in Houston.

    New vaccines in development include:
    Feline Immunodeficiency Virus and cat scratch fever vaccine for cats and
    Ehrlichia [one of the other tick diseases, much worse than Lymes] for dogs.

    Most vets recommend annual boosters and most kennel operators require
    them. For years the pricing structure of vets has misled clients into
    thinking that the inherent value of an annual office visit was in the
    "shots" they failed to emphasize the importance of a physical exam for
    early detection of treatable diseases. It is my hope that you will
    continue to require rabies & Kennel cough and
    emphasize the importance of a recent vet exam. I also hope you will
    accept the new protocols and honor these pets as currently vaccinated.
    Those in the boarding business who will honor the new vaccine protocols
    can gain new customers who were turned away from vet owned boarding
    facilities reluctant to change.

    Dogs & cats no longer need to be vaccinated against distemper, parvo, &
    feline leukemia every year. Once the initial series of puppy or kitten
    vaccinations and first annual vaccinations are completed, immunity from
    MLV vaccines persists for life. It has been shown that cats over 1 year
    of age are immune to Feline Leukemia whether they have been vaccinated
    or not. Imagine the money you will save, not to mention less risks from
    side effects. PCR rabies vaccine, because it is not adjuvanted, will
    mean less risk of mediated hemolytic anemia and allergic reactions are
    reduced by less frequent use of vaccines as well as by avoiding
    unnecessary vaccines such as K-9 Corona virus and chlamydia for cats, as
    well as ineffective vaccines such as Leptospirosis and FIP. Intranasal
    vaccine for Rhiotracheitis and Calici virus, two upper respiratory
    viruses of cats provide more complete protection than injectable
    vaccines with less risk of serious reactions.*

    The AAHA and all 27 veterinary schools of North America are our biggest
    endorsement for these new protocols.

    Dr. Bob Rogers

    *Please consider as current on all vaccinations for boarding purposes.*

    DOGS Initial series of puppy vaccines
    1. distemper, hepatitis, parvo, parinfluenze - 3 sets one month apart
    concluding at 16 weeks of age.
    2. Rabies at 16 weeks of age (later is better)
    3. Bordetella within last 4-6 months First annual (usually at 1 year and
    4 months of age)
    1. DHP, Parvo, Rabies
    2. Bordetella within last 4-6 months 2 years or older
    1. Rabies with in last year
    2. Bordetella within last 4-6 months
    3. DHP & Parvo given anytime over 6 months of age , but not necessarily
    within the last year.
    Recommended: Physical exam for transmissible diseases and health

  8. #6
    labby's Avatar
    labby is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    *points to her right palm*

    DefaultRe: rabies shot too early?

    Even though I have been treated for Lyme twice and Remy has been once, I refuse to let my dogs have the Lyme vaccine. Too many bad reactions. I don't have rabie done before 5 months of age.


  9. #7
    windycanyon's Avatar
    windycanyon is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    C. WA

    DefaultRe: rabies shot too early?

    Interesting page, Rottnlabs--- esp interesting since it says that titers aren't reliable (something that the folks on the holistic page are rallying around--- yet puzzling to me since a friend's dog that titered normal died of parvo last winter...). -Anne

    WindyCanyon Girls, August 2014

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006

    DefaultRe: rabies shot too early?

    esp interesting since it says that titers aren't reliable
    How do you get that? It's long been known that a potential weakness of titers is that they may show low immunity when sufficient immunity exists. That's quite different than a titer showing sufficient immunity when such immunity is absent. They're apparently reliable enough that I believe the bulk of research on vaccinations utilizes the results from titers - it's the only way to get tangible results regarding immunity absent deliberately introducing a pathogen into a test dog.

  11. #9
    windycanyon's Avatar
    windycanyon is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    C. WA

    DefaultRe: rabies shot too early?

    Nick-- sorry, I apparently got so engrossed in the site that rottnlabs posted above that I got off track. Quoted from another page on that site (under summary of new vaccination protocols): "Titers of antibody levels do not accurately predict immunity or lack of immunity." That was from http://www.critteradvocacy.org/New%2...0Protocols.htm


    WindyCanyon Girls, August 2014

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006

    DefaultRe: rabies shot too early?

    Okay, thanks for posting that link. I was a bit confused because they also cite studies that use serum antibody titers as proof that vaccines last much longer than 3 years. However, after looking closer at the studies, most used two techniques to determine immunity - titers and a challenge study so I guess that they disagree that titers are useful but since the studies were also challenge studies they agree with the conclusions.

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