Payton is just about 9 months old and has major allergies! We have him on Innova Evo RM which he loves and is doing great on, but with all this talk about calcium and phosphorus ratios I am concerned and don't want to hurt his development. Timberwolf makes an Ocean Blue which he can have and I just wanted to know what anyone's experiences with it have been? Also, does anyone make a beef and potato? Thanks!
Have not, but would if I could get it locally. I like the looks of the ingredients, percentages, etc.
I've fed it. It's a good food.
I am probably going to get ripped apart here, but I feed Innova EVO RM as well. My pup is 8 months. I had him on it before I knew better and actually tried to switch him off to TWO Wild and Natural, which has less calcium. Unfortunately, this didn't work at all for him, he got a dry, dull coat, diarrhea, and didn't really seem to care for the food. This lasted through ALL of a 16 pound bag, which was about a month. I also feed raw for about half of his diet. I have pretty high standards for the food I want him on, and Innova EVO RM works well for him. It is one of the few available to me in my area without grain. So far we have had ABSOLUTELY no problems with it, and I realize they would show up later, but I can't very well see how having him on a food which ruins his coat, gives him diarrhea, and he doesn't even like is better. The effects of the switch in food were pretty amazing to me. After about 2 weeks on the TWO, his coat started to look dull and very dry. After the switch back to EVO, I noticed a change for the better in about the same amount of time. Things are great now, with about half of a 13.5 pound bag of EVO RM left. I'm EXTREMELY careful about keeping him lean, exercising him, but not too excessively, and watching what he eats. I also know there has been some research (sorry, can't cite anything specifically here) that says puppies develop a mechanism to excrete extra calcium between 6 and 9 months. Not sure about this, but I guess at this point and with all the food issues we've gone through, I'm willing to stick with Innova EVO RM if it works for him.
Edit: I guess that was my long-winded recommendation to do what works for your dog.
Unfortunately, you are not going to see the any "bad effects" from EVO until the damage is done. The excess calcium and phosporous levels of EVO can cause skeletal problems, and once you see the symptoms the damage will have been done. Even the Natura company does not recommend feeding EVO to large breed puppies.
Ks02, there are plenty of foods other than Timberwolf out there for you to try on your pup. There are even other Timberwolf foods that you could try, and you could get a completely different response than the one you saw with the Wild & Natural.
I love a great looking coat as much as the next person does but there's more to a dog's health than coat. Growing puppies need a diet that is moderate, as far as fat and protein go, or else they tend to grow too fast and this can cause multiple skeletal problems.
Also, did you get your pup from a breeder? If so, what food do they recommend you feed? Does the breeder know what you are feeding? Many breeder's contracts regarding hip dysplasia, etc., can be voided if you feed an improper food. I certainly wouldn't guarantee a puppy that had been fed EVO during the growth period.
ks02...How old was your puppy when you put him on the EVO? I hope he doesn't pay the price for the unnecessary chance you've taken.
To the original poster, I love Timberwolf Organic foods and would probably feed it if I could get it locally. I've never tried the Ocean Blue formula, but my kids all love and do well on the formulas I've used (wild and dry, southwest chicken, bison).
Yes, but not when decades of research are clearly contradicting this. You may not see the damage, and hopefully none was caused, but that doesn't mean all that research should be discarded.I guess that was my long-winded recommendation to do what works for your dog.
You're probably right, at this age it's less of a concern because they can excrete it...but there's still no proof that it is safe. Keeping them lean is a separate issue. Yeah, it's good, but it does nothing to balance out the effects of excess calcium. They're two separate issues.
I'm not going to tell you to switch or what to do, that's your business. But, I would caution anyone reading this that this is not one of those examples of "feed what works." On average, this will not work. It's especially risky in light of the fact that we don't know how to genetically screen for HD, and excess calcium really exaggerates the symptoms of dysplastic dogs.
I plan on ordering the Ocean Blue and I only hope he likes it as their are no other foods I can find that he's able to eat. I wish the research was a little bit more clear on this, but I will wait a few months until I know Payton is clear from any problems then he will be back on the EVo RM he loves! I really wish that a food company made a beef and potato only formula!
I agree! Are there any beef (or red meat) and potato formulas out there? I think Riley was about 6 months the first time I tried him on Innova EVO RM...the bag was the medium one (maybe 13.5 pounds?), and towards the end of the bag I was informed about the calcium. Unfortunately, the store I got it from misinformed me and said it would be great for him. Well, as soon I found out, I switched him to TWO Wild and Natural because of better calcium/phosphorus levels. It wasn't his coat that bothered me so much...it was the diarrhea. I really hope too, that I didn't do something detrimental to him. He is only about halfway through the second TOTAL bag of EVO, so if anyone has ANY suggestions about a similar food, I'd be very open to them.
Sadly, Riley came from a BYB and there are no guarantees. The breeder fed ProPlan, but didn't really recommend anything at all. I really just want him to be as healthy as he can, but I'm at a loss about the food issue. I've also done some research and would prefer to keep him on grain free food. I understand that there have been numerous studies done about calcium and joint problems, but does anyone know why the calcium has a negative effect? Isn't 1.5% the MINIMUM recommendation for calcium levels in puppy food? I'm so confused. ???
It promotes rapid growth, and depositing calcium into the bones promotes premature ossification. Therefore, any deformities in the bones (especially hips) can be dramatically worsened by feeding too much calcium. The latter is less of a concern after they can get rid of the excess calcium as opposed to depositing it in their own bones.I understand that there have been numerous studies done about calcium and joint problems, but does anyone know why the calcium has a negative effect?
1.5% is generally the maximum a lot of breeders want. There's no exact level that will or will not cause problems.