We just started feeding Payton Evo Rm and he loves it! His poops are very small and semi firm (only been 5 days since gradual switch), but when he does his business, he tries to go like four of fives times after he poops. His he just gassy? I started him on probiotics today, but thought I would ask.
I see that he's about 8 months old. Personally, I think that is too young to put a dog on EVO...I'd definately be worried if he was still straining to poop after he's done.
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What does that tell you in reference to the straining? I as well was concerened with putting him on Evo and after doing vast research I called and spoke to a women at Natura who told me that they don't reccommend it unless a dog is 90% of his adult weight. He weighs 85 pounds and his Mom weighed 80 and his Dad 95, so I don't expect him to grow much more then 10%. Besides going raw, this is one of two foods (solid Gold Barking at the Moon the other) that he can eat due to massive allergies. Thoughts?
I actually forgot about the Ocean Blue, but thought I would go with Evo being it's grain free. Payton's 9 months in two weeks and I keep seeing research done which shows labs plates close between 6-8 months. I found this report which was made in reference to large breeds especially labs:
Canine Hip Dysplasia: A Symposium Held at Western Veterinary Conference, February 1995.
Skeletal Diseases of the Growing Dog:
Nutritional Influences and the Role of Diet
Daniel C. Richardson
DVM Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Surgeons
Director, Advanced Research Hill's Pet Nutrition, Inc., Topeka, Kansas
Skeletal development in the dog results from an interaction of genetic, environmental, and nutritional factors. The genetic component can be influenced when the populations are well controlled, accurate breeding records are kept, and a desire to improve the breed exists. Environmental factors such as housing and activity level are under the owner's influence. Nutrition is one of the single most important factors affecting development of the musculoskeletal system, and energy, protein, and calcium are some of the more critical nutritional components affecting skeletal development. When given in excess, they can be detrimental to normal skeletal growth.(1-7) Most pet owners in the United States feed commercially prepared diets, which are balanced and complete. The vast majority of developmental skeletal disorders diagnosed in veterinary practice occur in large and giant breeds and are associated with excess (i.e., inappropriate) intake of a commercial diet and/or supplementation. The most prevalent developmental orthopedic disorders are hip dysplasia and osteochondrosis.
CANINE HIP DYSPLASIA
Canine hip dysplasia (CHD) is the most frequently encountered orthopedic disease in veterinary medicine practice. This extremely common heritable disorder of the growing dog can be influenced by nutrition. The period from 3 to 8 months of age appears to be important in the development of CHD, with the first 6 months generally thought to be the most critical. Early developmental findings of CHD, including joint laxity and coxofemoral anatomic changes, have been documented within 2 weeks of birth. Rapid weight gain in German shepherds during the first 60 days after birth has been associated with CHD at a later age. Frequency and severity of CHD are influenced by weight gain in growing dogs, especially if sired by parents with CHD or with a high incidence of CHD in their offspring. Dogs with weight gains exceeding breed standards have a higher frequency of CHD as well as more severe CHD than dogs with weight gain below the standard curve.(8)In one colony of fast growing Labrador retrievers, the triradiate growth plates of the acetabula fused at 5 months as determined by conventional radiography; normal closure of these growth plates in pups growing at conventional rates has been reported to occur at 6 months. Early fusion in the acetabulum is speculated to result in bone/cartilage disparities in the future and to predispose to dysplastic changes.(9) Limiting food intake in growing Labrador retriever puppies has been associated with less subluxation of the femoral head and fewer signs of hip dysplasia.(10)
Osteochondrosis (OCD) is a focal area of disruption in endochondral ossification. OCD occurs in the physis and/or epiphyseal regions of growth cartilage. This disease can be generalized or systemic and is widespread among young, rapidly growing, warm blooded, domesticated species and in humans. In all species the etiology is considered multifactorial. In the dog, OCD risk factors are associated with age, gender, breed, rapid growth, and nutrient (primarily calcium) excesses.(1,11-14)
All large and giant breeds are at increased risk for OCD, with Great Danes, Labrador retrievers, Newfoundlands, and rottweilers having the highest risk.(14) Males have an increased risk of OCD in the proximal humerus, but gender relationships are not found with OCD involving other joints.(14)
Osteochondrosis lesions are routinely found in pigs as young as 25 days of age.(15) These findings would help substantiate that OCD may be caused by a localized, primary effect on the chondrocyte rather than secondary effects of biomechanic force because rapid growth and weight gain are much less of a factor at this age. Regardless of the pathogenesis of OCD, the underlying role of nutrition is still a factor. In the growing puppy, over nutrition can result in a mismatch between body weight and skeletal growth, which can lead to overloading of skeletal structures. Nutrition of the mother may also play a role in the development of OCD in the offspring.(16)
Although generalized nutrient excesses have been blamed for OCD lesions, there is increasing evidence implicating specific nutrients. Excessive calcium intake resulting in a hypercalcitoninism and hypoparathyroidism(2) manifests as retarded bone maturation, inhibition of osteoclastic activity, and slowed cartilage maturation. These effects on bone and cartilage increase the incidence of osteochondral lesions in articular and physeal cartilage.(2) Osteochondrosis of the acetabular rim has been proposed to lead to a shallow acetabulum and subsequent CHD in the dog. Most of the studies evaluating the effect of vitamin C on OCD have used the pig as a research model and agree that vitamin C supplementation has no effect on the incidence of OCD.(8,17)
Overnutrition intended to maximize growth rate is incompatible with optimal skeletal development in many species. An early study suggesting a role of overnutrition in the development of skeletal disease in dogs was that of Hedhammer and colleagues in 1974(1); in an effort to study the influence of food consumption on the incidence of skeletal disease, these researchers performed an experiment comparing ad libitum versus restricted dietary intake in Great Dane puppies. The resultant skeletal pathology was markedly increased in the ad libitum group. This study heightened the awareness of the critical role nutrition plays in bone development.
Research has also determined that dogs develop a mechanism for excreting excess calcium some time around 6 months, which means calcium is not as great of a concern (which takes away the reason against feeding EVO) after 6 months. I suspect that we'll see the recommendations change in the future.
For now, though, I wouldn't chance it and would continue to follow the recommendations regarding the concern for calcium (which goes through the first 12 months). Just to be clear, I'm not recommending that EVO be fed to puppies. I do, however, have a feeling it may change (maybe only restricted to puppies under 6 or 9 months of age). I certainly wouldn't act upon a "feeling" though.
Thanks Nick, so you're saying to be safe and wait until he's a year old or so to feed Evo?
I'm not making any recommendations (I'm not a vet or breeder), but I'm just saying that from what I've read, the general recommendation is that the first 12 months is the most critical with respect to calcium (minus some of the newer research).
If it were me, I'd probably play it safe and wait until Jes (my dog) was at least 12 months old.
Thanks Nick! I will discuss this with my vet tomorrow and think of switching. Is there any other holistic diet which staple is beef/chicken that you know of which is great for bad allergies?
Not off-hand, unless you're interesting in researching a raw diet.