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Thread: Hip Question

  1. #21
    YellowJakesMom's Avatar
    YellowJakesMom is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Hip Question

    Hi Buckyball -

    My pup was diagnosed as "predisposed to HD" and then "severly dysplastic" when he was 6 months old. The radiographs I had done did indeed look like he had one hip that was not formed correctly. We took him to the state vet hospital, where we were discussing hip replacement surgeries and they decided to do their own films, some of which were for Penn HIP evaluation. When properly positioned, his hips looked totally normal, and his Penn HIP came back in the high 80th percentile - so no surgery needed

    Personally, I will get my next dog Penn HIP'd as well, just because I am a worrier and wanted to know if I would be up against anything early on. Every misstep he had I was convinced was due to his hips, and that's just my nature (my last lab had almost no acetabulum at all, so I'm gunshy). SO was very relieved when we had the eval done and could all rest easy that everything was okay.

    Which is not to say I still don't worry about him all the time now, it's just different things Hope everything turns out okay with your guy!

    Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find that money cannot be eaten. - Cree prophecy

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  3. #22
    Buckyball's Avatar
    Buckyball is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Hip Question

    Yellowjakesmom - I am the same way! Every stumble and misstep he took and every comment people made about his lazy sit made me worry. So when he was under anesthesia for his neutering I asked the vet to do an xray as well.

    Like I said before from the research I did his xrays had the proper positioning and what not. But I am no expert. However, for the time being it put my mind at ease :P
    I am definitely getting a proper evaluation when he is a little older.

    Thanks for all the input guys!!
    Glad to hear I don't have to change food yet again so soon :P
    <3 01/01/2006-03/18/2017 <3

  4. #23
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    DefaultRe: Hip Question

    Quote Originally Posted by gerst001
    This email came from a popular company about 4 months ago..



    "As with all nutraceutical products where the ingredients may be naturally produced by the body, we recommend waiting until the patient is fully grown before starting supplementation. Early supplementation in growing animals may cause the body to reduce natural product formation of a specific nutrient. If, however, your Veterinarian feels that supplementation would benefit an animal that is still growing (predisposed to disease, muscle/bone/joint trauma received such as hit by a car) then we recommend an on-again/off again approach, or a lower dosage rate, until the dog has reached maturity."
    They are saying Glucosamine is produced in the body? I think they are referring to Vitamins as supplements. If a vitamin is produced in the body don't add more in the diet.

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  6. #24
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    DefaultRe: Hip Question


    I have been told that there is no scientific proof (from studies) that Glucosamine/Chondrotin actually works, which seemed really odd to me considering how many people use it.* Personally if my dog had perfect hips I wouldn't bother with it.* It seems like it's often being given as a preventative and I've read on forums of breeders starting their fairly young pups on it.* My Vet feels that if a dog has hip dysplasia the two most important things are appropriate exercise to keep the joints as tight as possible, and not letting your dog get overweight/keeping them on the lean side.* That said...he doesn't have a problem with supplementing G/C, just doesn't seem to think it's going to be a huge help.

    I'm curious about the different tests (i.e. OFA and PennHip). From what I understand (and I could wrong) OFA does not really address "looseness" of the ball of the hip in the hip socket. So could the hip not be loose (causing problems in the future) but look okay on the x-ray? I gather than Pennhip "does" address these things, but if that is the case then why do the majority of people choose to OFA their dogs?

  7. #25
    YellowJakesMom's Avatar
    YellowJakesMom is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Hip Question

    Most use OFA for several reasons (and these are also the reasons I use PennHIP!)

    1. any vet can do it and send in the films
    2. no training req for the vets who take the films
    3. dog doesn't necessarily have to be sedated
    4. rating system with quality words like "good, excellent, etc"
    5. cheaper

    PennHIP is expensive, because all the vets who do it are specially trained. This means some people might have to drive an hour to gt to a PennHIP vet as well. When you get results, PennHIP does not classify hips by a quality, but by a quantity, a percentile. That is, Jake's hips are tighter than 88% of other labs rated by PennHIP. Doesn't say if they're good, bad or ugly - just that he has little hip laxity, which can later contribute to degenerative joint disease and is an idicator of HD.

    However, I much prefer the extra cost to have a vet that knows what they are doing in relation to what the evaluators are looking at. And the hips aren't just looked at and then determined, they're measured and then calculated relative to the same breed. OFA has vets look and the rating is their subjective opinion, one's good could be another's excellent, etc.

    Feel free to PM me if you want more info., I'm off to work now

    Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find that money cannot be eaten. - Cree prophecy

  8. #26
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    DefaultRe: Hip Question

    They are saying Glucosamine is produced in the body?
    I believe it is. It's obviously found in the joints, but it's also found in the bladder (lining) - some people believe glucosamine will help reduce bladder infections by restoring the bladder lining.

    Having said that, I haven't heard/read where it shouldn't be given to growing pups, nor did the ortho vet say not to when Jes was about 8 months old. Of course, that doesn't mean it isn't true, honestly I haven't looked at that issue. And Jes may have been old enough that the ortho vet didn't bother with that detail.

  9. #27
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    DefaultRe: Hip Question

    A lot of regular vets don't shoot the xrays correctly so always get a 2nd opinion by a vets that does a lot of them. It happens everytime I want to take a short cut and not travel. 4 different vets, all did them wrong. I'm not big on Penn Hip because I have a vet that used to be an OFA reader so I have no reason to pay 4X the price. I sure wouldn't do it for a pet that's going to be neutered. Just because there is a greater joint laxity doesn't mean that will lead to arthritis.

  10. #28
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    DefaultRe: Hip Question

    Quote Originally Posted by FieldLabLover
    Just because there is a greater joint laxity doesn't mean that will lead to arthritis.
    My Vet told me that having loose hips doesn't "always" mean it is a forgone conclusion that arthritis "will" occur, but that it certainly increases the odds and is the major cause of arthritis in the hip joint. I don't really understand why one dog with loose hips would end up arthritic and another wouldn't, but I would imagine that appropriate exercise and not letting them get over weight could be a big part of minimizing it. If OFA doesn't measure laxity of the hips then it would seem that a dog could develope problems later that wouldn't be apparent on an x-ray at 2 years old, so a dog that is say rated FAIR at 2 might not pass at 3, 4 or 5. I guess it would still help to eliminate the really bad cases of HD, but if Pennhip measures laxity that would be the route I would go if I was a breeder. Just my opinion and I'm sure others have their reasons for preferring OFA. Sadly, although I'm sure the incidence of HD has gone down with testing, there still seems to be a good percentage affected.

  11. #29
    YellowJakesMom's Avatar
    YellowJakesMom is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Hip Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Of The Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by FieldLabLover
    Just because there is a greater joint laxity doesn't mean that will lead to arthritis.
    I don't really understand why one dog with loose hips would end up arthritic and another wouldn't, but I would imagine that appropriate exercise and not letting them get over weight could be a big part of minimizing it.
    You're exactly right TopoftheHill, exercise can be a major factor in helping dogs with greater hip laxity. Proper muscle development in the hind end could actually help stabilize the hip - one reason why swimming is so often noted as excellent exercise for HD dogs. (Low impact, uses hind legs, etc.).

    And yes FieldLabLover, having greater hip laxity doesn't necessarily mean a dog will experience degenerative joint disease (DJD) later in life, and PennHIP doesn't purport to tell you that. The results simply state your dog's index, then that statistically the chances of DJD are X at that index. So will greater hip laxity always lead to DJD? No. Is laxity a good indicator for possible future DJD? Yes. And that's why people should choose PennHIP in my opinion.

    Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find that money cannot be eaten. - Cree prophecy

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