Teddy went to the vets for a check up today as he collapsed again on Saturday - TWICE. For consistency I wanted him to see the same Vet who dealt with him before christmas hence only going today.
It's been 7 weeks since his last collapse and it was about 2 months before that, and 3 months prior to that was the first one I witnessed.
The options of causes we have are:
1. Pain spasms caused by severe OCD in both elbows - my vet is now beginning to think this is not the cause
2. A deficiency in glucose/calcium or such like
3. Very Mild Epilepsy
So I am now on seizure watch with video camera charged to hand so that I can record what happens, and then he has to be at the vets within 12hrs of the seizure/collapse happening so that we can get reliable blood tests.
Has anyone witnessed/heard of anything similar that could be related to his OCD?
OR, is this similar to epilepsy? I know I had a horse once that showed no signs of epilepsy until he was 6, but I have no experience of it with dogs?
OR, has someone heard of collapse due to an imbalance of something?
I'm starting to get really concerned about him and just wish I knew how to fix it!
I don't know much about this - but Labs can develop something called exercise induced collapse (EIC). What are the events surrounding him collapsing?
What are the symptoms of the collapse?
Is he seizing or collasping? He could have EIC, or Exercise Induced Collapse. The symptoms look very much like seizures.
Here's some reading for you: http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/h...cter_EIC_part2
Dani, Rider & Rookie
SHR Watson's Safari Rider, JH, WC, CL1-R, RA, CGC, TDI
SHR Endeavor Put Me In Coach, RN, WC, CGC
Member Since 6/2003
His heart is healthy - forgot to mention that!
I don't think it's EIC as since he was so ill at the end of Nov he has only had 10min walks on lead and not even daily because if it has been exceptionally wet or cold I've kept him home in the dry and warm. We've stopped going to training classes for the moment as well so he's not even been doing lots of repetitive exercises like retrieve, recall, etc. Thanks for the link it was interesting to read.
I will try to explain the symptoms and events of the collapses I've witnessed:
1) Ted was sat in the kitchen whilst I feeding him, my mum's dog and the cat. He is normally my shadow I walked to the food cupboard and as I opened the door I noticed his nose wasn't there, I turned round and he was flopped on the floor, his expression was a bit weird his ears were flat back and his eyes looked "worried". His front legs looked like they were in spasm as I spoke to him and went over to comfort him he tried to move his left leg but it just looked floppy and he had no control. The front half of his body was tense so I stroked him and talked to him, in all it lasted about 10 minutes. Afterwards it was like nothing had happened.
2) The second time he was mooching around following the cat and came and stood in front of the french doors as the cat had gone out, I got up to let him out, turned round and although he was following me he was holding his left leg awkwardly and his shoulders were lowered, then he just sank to the floor both front legs in spasm, again with the same flat eared worried look, and again I stroked him and talked to him, but it was a good 10-15 minutes before he relaxed. Again afterwards he back to bouncy Ted and wanted to go out with the cat.
3) He was following me around when I noticed that he was holding his left leg stiffly, his paw was "clenched", then his right leg seemed to go stiff as well and he did a couple of steps of very stiff, straight but uncontrolled before he lay/fell to the ground. Again both shoulders and legs were tight and although they don't visibly twitch/spasm he just lies there with a worried look and his front end all tensed up. Was a good 15 minutes before he relaxed.
4) Saturday morning I left the stairgate open and as usual my shadow followed me up stairs, he sort of fell up the first two steps which was unusual and when I opened the bedroom door he dragged himself rather than jumped on the bed, then I noticed his worried look and that his right leg was stiff and his paw was clenched, this was the shortest spasm and it only lasted 5 minutes before he started bouncing round. However, when I went downstairs he stretched out on the settee and his eyes looked dull and I thought he was asleep at one point but he was just staring slightly vacant. He didn't pester the cat and didn't want his chew bone. He kept licking his legs though.
5)Saturday evening he was a little brighter then he just flopped to his belly and looked across at me, then I noticed his legs tighten up as in all previous episodes, this time it took about 15 minutes. He refused to move for a little while after.
The sound of my voice and touch of my hands seem to soothe him, but his eyes look sad although I think he is aware of his surroundings. He certainly does not have a full fit/seizure.
Talking to my Mum earlier she says it sounds like a Petit Mal, a friend of hers as a child had them. She would be fine one minute then her body would just stiffen but she didn't "fit" and she used to tell my mum she was fully conscious.
Sorry it's a long post and hope it makes sense!
When the vet does another blood test, make sure he does a thyroid panel. My lab, Reba, has had seizures. When she was 2 (now 7) she had several within 2 months. At that time the vets told me seizures were not thyroid related, but I insisted on a thyroid panel. She takes thyroid meds daily, and only has a seizure 2 or 3 times a year. Be aware that the 3 vets I have talked to about this do not believe seizures are thyroid related.
Sure as I say this, she will have one. Hope you get this resolved.
Judy, mom to Reba, the Lab, and Jalapeno (Halle), the JRT
My four yr old lab Monty has been having "seizure" type episode for over 2 yrs now. At first vets thought it could be epilepsy - but after many tests a diagnosis of paroxysmal dyskinesia was arrived at. He remains fully conscious and responsive throughout an episode - which can last anything from a couple of mins up to about 25 mins. After its over - its just like nothing happened. He is very frightened during the episode and this shows in his eyes - all I can do is to keep him in one place, gaving lots of reassurance.
If you are interested - I have put a short video clip on photobucket
Though pet mal is probably the most likely diagnosis paroxysmal dyskinesia (which is a movement disorder) may be a possibility - and if so then the usual epilepsy type drugs won't help/ The Chinook "seizure" is thought to probably be a type of paroxysmal dyskinesia and possibly Canine Epileptoid Cramping Syndrome (mostly in Border Terriers but also found in other breeds) may be too.
Regarding Exercise Induced Collapse - they are now finding excitement to be more of a factor than actual exercise (and incidentally Monty has one copy of the mutant gene responsible for EIC and therefore a "carrier"). DNA testing is now available for EIC, and for a number of other genetic conditions.
If you would like any more info re Monty or PD please get back in touch.
June and Monty
I had 2 dogs in the past who suffered from grand mal seizures and were put on medications, to no avail. However, this doesn't sound like epilepsy if he is aware and conscious of what is happening. The paw clenching does make it seem like some sort of movement disorder. Good luck with Teddy - I know how difficult it is to watch your dog go through something so scary.
Thanks for the suggestions of tests and possibile causes, I will keep you updated.
Your support is great.