**NEW INFO** technical question about underground dog fence installation...
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: **NEW INFO** technical question about underground dog fence installation...

  1. #1
    steveandginger's Avatar
    steveandginger is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Norman, Oklahoma
    Posts
    638

    Default**NEW INFO** technical question about underground dog fence installation...

    Not sure if anyone here might have the electrical knowledge to answer this, but...

    The most typical way to run an underground fence involves both twisted and untwisted wire. The untwisted wire is to be used on your perimeter, where you want it to be "electrically active" -- i.e. where it will activate the dog's collar. The twisted pair of wires is used where you need to run a wire but don't want it to activate the dog's collar. My question is -- can you use some type of shielded cable (for instance, quad-shielded coaxial cable) instead of a twisted pair of wires? In other words, will the shielding on the cable keep the wire from activating the dog's collar?

    I cross-posted this in Training Tips and Puppy Advice, as I was not sure which forum might be better for this question...

    Thanks --

    Steve

  2. Remove Advertisements
    JustLabradors.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Labs4life is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The real New York
    Posts
    10,664

    DefaultRe: technical question about underground dog fence installation...

    Hold on I'll get my electrical engineer to answer this for you. He's at lunch so give me a little time to get back to you.
    The Constitution is suppose to guarantee everyone the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but the Constitution does not guarantee everyone equal outcomes.
    Some people are more talented, educated, thieving and dishonest than others.

  4. #3
    Labs4life is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The real New York
    Posts
    10,664

    DefaultRe: technical question about underground dog fence installation...

    Just talked with my electrical guru.

    Twisted wire breaks up9Changes) the radio frequency where as the non-twisted doesn't. Coaxial wire does the same thing providing that the shielding is continous. We use foil shielded control cable on our automation to block RF noise in our machines.You can use his also if it's cheaper for you.
    The Constitution is suppose to guarantee everyone the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but the Constitution does not guarantee everyone equal outcomes.
    Some people are more talented, educated, thieving and dishonest than others.

  5. Remove Advertisements
    JustLabradors.com
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    steveandginger's Avatar
    steveandginger is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Norman, Oklahoma
    Posts
    638

    DefaultRe: technical question about underground dog fence installation...

    labs4life --

    This is possibly great news. I am trying to enclose my back yard only -- extending out to the property lines from the two back corners of my house. I want, obviously, the back of the house to be an area where the collar will not activate, as Misty's access to the back yard will be through our back patio door. The way the manufacturer says to do this is to do a "double loop" install -- i.e. you run no wire along the back of the house, but thus have to run a double loop of wire, with the wires roughly 6' apart. In other words, for a house whose back faces north, you might start on the west corner of your house, run around the west, then north, then east sides of the back yard, and then continue the loop back around the east side, then the north, and then back down the west side -- leaving you a continuous loop of wire, with the two ends terminating at the west corner of the house (i.e. the control panel). The problem with this is, you have to dig double the amount of trench, and run double the amount of wire. It would be so much easier if you could simply start at the west corner of the house, run wire along the west side, then the north side, then the east side, and then close the loop by running a shielded wire back, adjacent to the back of the house. If the shielded wire would result in a "stimulation-free" zone along the back of the house, then this would make the job MUCH easier.

    Before I get some shielded, burial-grade wire, and bury it, is the engineer SURE this will work?

    Thanks so much for your help!

    Steve

  7. #5
    Labs4life is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The real New York
    Posts
    10,664

    DefaultRe: technical question about underground dog fence installation...

    I'd do a test first. Buy a couple of yards of each wire and hold on to the collar yourself (set on low) and make a small circuit to test.

    We do alot of fairly sophisticated electronics here and RF and EMF noise is a problem. We use aluminum shielded wire all the time, but I don't know which frequency you are trying to block. PM me. I think if you can fax me the specs we can look into it a little better for you.
    The Constitution is suppose to guarantee everyone the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but the Constitution does not guarantee everyone equal outcomes.
    Some people are more talented, educated, thieving and dishonest than others.

  8. #6
    ds77755 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    60

    DefaultRe: technical question about underground dog fence installation...

    Don't mean to hijack, but if you could post the results of what you come up with, I would greatly appreciate. I have been thinking about this same set up; I just haven't gotten any farther than that (i.e., I'm a procrastinator)

    thanks
    Dominic &amp; Ellie<br /><br />

  9. #7
    steveandginger's Avatar
    steveandginger is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Norman, Oklahoma
    Posts
    638

    DefaultRe: technical question about underground dog fence installation...

    ds77755 --

    I'll certainly let you know what we come up with, and, if I end up doing this type of install, I'll let you know how it works.

    Steve

  10. #8
    steveandginger's Avatar
    steveandginger is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Norman, Oklahoma
    Posts
    638

    DefaultRe: technical question about underground dog fence installation...

    ds77755 --

    We're still working on this. The concensus so far is that is SHOULD work, if I ground the shielding. Not sure how I'd do this, but I'm trying to get info. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

    Steve

  11. #9
    HersheyK's Dad's Avatar
    HersheyK's Dad is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Minnetonka, MN
    Posts
    10,307

    DefaultRe: technical question about underground dog fence installation...

    Sent PM
    Hershey Kisses, In charge of getting Ed out to the dog park so that he gets some exercise.

  12. #10
    steveandginger's Avatar
    steveandginger is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Norman, Oklahoma
    Posts
    638

    DefaultNEW INFO Re: technical question about underground dog fence installation...

    Everyone:

    I spoke with an engineer from Radio Systems, INC. I found out some very interesting things.

    1. Innotek, and PetSafe, two of the largest manufacturers of in-ground pet fencing, have merged. I think Radio Systems is now the parent company. Some former Innotek models will still be sold, but now under the PetSafe name.

    2. The man I spoke with was the engineer who actually developed my particular system, the UltraSmart IUC-5100. He says the coax idea WILL NOT work -- since it uses a magnetic field to set off the collar. You can't "shield" the magnetic field.

    3. The particular solution this engineer has developed (and that they want me to field test) involves running a second loop of wire, around/in close proximity to the section of your fence "perimeter" wire that you want to be "deactivated" in terms of setting off the collar. You attach this second loop of wire to a piece of hardware which you can mount near your indoor transmitter. This piece of hardware somehow sends "cancelling" signal along the second loop, rendering your fence perimeter wire "deactivated" in the vicinity of the second loop. Kind of hard to describe, but if anyone wants more info I can give it. I will be interested to see how this works. The guy told me that they actually developed this solution for the PetSafe systems (since the companies weren't merged at the time), but he says it will work on the Innotek -- part of why they want me to field test it. He says they will update/customize the hardware for Innotek owners in the near future, and will eventually send me the updated version. In the mean time, he says it should work well. Now, I just have to wait for them to send it to me and we can go from there.

    Steve

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25