most people have heard the training tip about rolling up a newspaper to strike a dog as a way of correcting a behavior, and i think most people would agree that hitting a dog with a newspaper or any other object for that matter is pretty much the same thing as actually hitting the dog with one's hand (correct me if i'm wrong).
i'm curious what people think about delivering a leash-collar pop to a dog...
initially, i thought, well a leash pop is completely different than actually hitting a dog, but when i think about it some more, it seems to me that a leash pop is somewhat similiar to striking a dog with a newspaper. ???
even if you don't reply in the thread, please vote
editied to add new 4th voting option
"Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend." ~ Corey Ford
Hitting, or beating up you're dog doesnt do any good, they just get scared, and just dont know what you mean with hitting them :-\
I don't think it's the same. Dogs are trained with a leash pop and if you do it right (and really know what you are doing) you are not hurting them. Taking your hand or any object at all and smacking them upside the head is a sign of "anger". I think Jake was hit in the head ... If we put our hand out to pet his head he pulls back. Remember that beautiful yellow boy I rescued where the man of the house was the only one who he would listen to ... he hit him in the head daily ...... : I don't like the newspaper thing either. If you use a newspaper rolled up and slam it down on a table to get their attention, that's one thing, but using it on the dog is different. I just sound off my air horn; gets everyone's attention, including the neighbors!
At the risk of sounding really stupid, what exactly do you mean by leash pop? I realize it should be rather self-definitive, but how hard would you have to jerk the leash to be considered a leash pop? What are some examples of when a leash pop would be used and what reaction from the dog is supposed to happen with a leash pop?
to me, a leash pop is any sudden & quick slack and pull of the leash.
reaction from the dog? i would say that typically a leash pop produces a startle or stun reacton from the dog.
and usually a person would give a leash pop for 2 main reasons, and they kind of go hand in hand:
1. to interrupt their dog's fixation on something and or to obtain their attention
2. give a correction to communicate to the dog that his behavior is incorrect
"Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend." ~ Corey Ford
I think the main difference to the DOG is that they don't necessarily connect the leash pop to you - it's just an incident that occurs when they do something, whereas hitting your dog, whether with your hand, or a rolled up newspaper or whatever obviously comes from you. Leash pops don't stop your dog because they hurt - they get the dogs attention and then YOU give the dog something else to do, or reward the dog for looking at you and ignore the leash pop altogether. Leash pops should be used for training, NOT to generally prevent your dog from doing something (we all know how well thoses leash pops work walking an untrained dog - they don't)
Both are methods of letting the dog know he has done something unacceptable.
I have actually been thinking of k9ruby's post since she posted. She said something that there was a bit of truth to, but the way she put it was a bit inflammatory. She said something to the effect of, people who use prong collars, choke collars, etc. are lazy trainers. Which we all know is of course not true. But, as someone who uses corrections very, very sparingly, I would agree that it is more difficult and labor-intensive to train a dog using entirely positive methods.
And sometimes, it is downright impossible.
Take Angus and Simon, for example. Simon is so very soft and gets his feelings hurt so easily. It would be horrific to him to receive a harsh correction. Angus, on the other hand, is quite stubborn and hardheaded. Like the proverbial mule you have to first hit in the head to get his attention, sometimes a leash pop is what he needs.
I don't think it hurts Angus physically, and I don't think it hurts his feelings either. He bounces right back seconds later. I do think it is a method of helping him understand, "What you just did was wrong." Where Simon understands something much more subtle, I think Angus needs something a little more overt at times.
Again, I really save harsh corrections for something that is, in my eyes, a very big deal. Not heeling perfectly is not a VBD. Trying to pick a fight with another dog in class is, to me, a VBD. Because one day, Angus' bad manners could get his ass really kicked. I am trying to save him from himself. :P
So, I don't know if that really answers your question, now that I think about it. Sorry for the tangeant!
I guess I kind of agree with Sandy. To me a newspaper on the head seems more like something done in anger. As they say, corrections should never be delivered in anger (in a perfect world...but Lord knows I've been guilty of this a few times).
Connie and "The Boys":
Angus, Yellow Lab, CGC, RE, CD
Simon, d.b.a. Flat Coated Retriever, CGC, RE, CD
Gone ahead, but forever in my heart:
Crash, Pit Bull x Rottweiler x Golden Retriever
If you are taught the right way to pop the collar it should just be to correct or get their attention. A pop should only last 1 second. In the wild the mother dog would quickly grab a pup by the scruff of the neck ... somewhat like a pop.
With a newspaper you are a threating object to the dog. You make them become afraid of you ... not of what they have done wrong.
I would never hit a dog, but I will leash pop if the situation calls for it.
Case scenario: I am walking Maisy on leash through my local village high street. After the schools finish, there is usually plenty of food littered around. Maisy is walking nicely to heel but then then gets the scent of something. I reinforce the 'heel' command. She obeys, but only momentarily before she lunges after a piece of food. I instantly pop her collar (not hard, but enough to direct her attention away from the food) and verbally reprimand her with a 'leave it'. With Maisy, a verbal correction is NEVER enough when food is involved. She needs to have some kind of physical correction to let her know that it is unacceptable. After one correction she is rarely repeats the behavior for at least the duration of that walk.
Like Connie, my two boys are drastically different.
Murphy has been on the receiving end of a number of leash/collar pops in his lifetime. And they will, I am sure, continue. He is a bit of a challenge. : 'Tis a good thing I love him so.
Riley, OTOH, is so "soft" that just a negative "ep-ep" noise will bring him back into line. I wouldn't consider "popping" his leash. I am afraid he would dissolve into a puddle of jelly.
So, to answer your question. In my opinion, I don't think a collar/leash pop is the same as physically hitting your dog. But, the conditions do vary. Also, the desired result is diffferent. Leash pop=request for obedience. Hitting=inflicting pain. Does that make sense?
Murphy, Riley, and Piper